Jeff and Elliotte kick things off with an apology before getting into some rapid-fire thoughts from Elliotte’s latest blog, discuss the changes in Edmonton and Montreal, Vancouver hiring Cammi Granato, and the arena situation in Arizona.
It was a crazy busy week in hockey! Jeff and Elliotte kick things off with an apology (00:15) before getting into some rapid-fire thoughts from Elliotte’s latest blog -- Tyler Toffoli (3:25), Christian Dvorak (4:15), Rick Bowness (4:50), Jack Eichel’s return (7:00), Gina Kingsbury and Theresa Feaster (10:20), Tomas Hertl (11:10), Pavel Zacha (13:20), Nick Paul (14:40), and Vitali Kravtsov (16:10).
They also get into the changes in Edmonton (18:00) and Montreal (31:50), discuss the hiring of Cammi Granato in Vancouver (41:00), the situation in Arizona (42:50), and why the PHFPA parted ways with Alex Sinatra (48:45).
Full transcript for the episode can be found here by Medha Monjaury
Music Outro: BUD - Nowhere
Listen to more music from BUD on Spotify
This podcast is produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.
Audio Credits: Anheuser-Busch, Montreal Canadiens, San Jose Sharks, Sportsnet and WGN 720.
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.
OPEN //// Jeff Marek [00:00:00] I do love Sneaky Dee's so much, oh the nachos are great.
Jeff Marek [00:00:05] Welcome once again to 32 Thoughts, presented by the all-new GMC AT4 Lineup and Elliotte, we will start today's podcast with a, a statement of remorse. Where would you like to begin?
Elliotte Friedman [00:00:18] Well first of all, we blew it on the last podcast and we appreciate--
Jeff Marek [00:00:22] Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa.
Elliotte Friedman [00:00:23] No no no, you are taking responsibility for this too. I'm taking a lot of it, but you're taking some. You know, we really appreciate the fact that all of you pay attention, that you listen, and considering Jeff and I drone on and on about one boring topic after another. We appreciate all of your attention to it. Yes, I was wrong, I said that Buffalo beat Anaheim in the game with the Zegras flip over the net, and I don't know what I was thinking, it was completely moronic and it was terrible and I was wrong, I was flat out wrong. I am taking 75% of the blame, and I think I'm being overly generous because, you asked a question without even knowing the answer. And that is horrible. Like I hate people who asked trivia questions or things like that and don't know the answer. And Amil, you didn't fact check it. Although, you know, I'd love to blame Amil, but he's only taking 1% of the blame on this one for not fact checking. Marek you only have to take 24% of the blame.
Jeff Marek [00:01:21] Okay.
Elliotte Friedman [00:01:21] And I think that shows what a great human I am.
Jeff Marek [00:01:24] Wow.
Elliotte Friedman [00:01:24] Because I think you should take at least 50.
Jeff Marek [00:01:30] Well, first of all, like many things, you missed the whole point. The whole point of that little exercise about Trevor Zegras and Sonny Milano in that play, my point was, does anyone really even remember the score of the game? No. All they remember was that play. So the whole episode with you being wrong slash me being wrong slash why am I wrong if all I did was ask a question, to somehow we've dragged Amil into this as well, somehow he's become a fact checker, the whole point of the story is that no one remembers really, and you proved it.
Elliotte Friedman [00:02:01] No no no.
Jeff Marek [00:02:02] Because you will always remember that Zegras-Milano play, but you will not remember the score of the game or who won, and you proved it by answering incorrectly, man I am playing chess in so many different dimensions here with you right now. And with this one question, you're ahead right now, Elliotte is probably spinning like a top.
Elliotte Friedman [00:02:19] No, Kramer, my head is not spinning like a top. I'm just saying that if you ask a question, you've gotta know the answer, you can't say that it's some ninth level, three dimensional chess move with the audience. They know. I saw all your tweets.
Jeff Marek [00:02:35] In that instant, I didn't need to know the answer.
Elliotte Friedman [00:02:39] We're talking about this too long.
Jeff Marek [00:02:41] Yes. Cue the Patsy Cline I'm sorry music.
Elliotte Friedman [00:02:45] 75% my fault, 24% your fault.
Jeff Marek [00:02:48] All right.
Elliotte Friedman [00:02:48] Should be fifty, 1% Amil's fault. Geez.
Jeff Marek [00:02:53] No thanks, man. When you-know-what hits the fan, I run for cover and point fingers. You're taking all of it. We're gonna get in all the big topics in the last couple of days and man, were there ever some huge ones? We're gonna get to Montreal, we're gonna get to Edmonton, we're going to get to ASU, but first, I'm gonna throw out here, and listen, we are going to get to this feature properly one of these days. Don't worry. I'm gonna throw some names you mentioned in your latest blog available at sportsnet.ca, if you can expound on them and expand on them a little bit here. Let's start with: Tyler Toffoli. Go.
Elliotte Friedman [00:03:28] I think that he's very high on Calgary's radar. It makes a lot of sense, they're looking for scoring, they know him, it fits a lot of things. The other thing though is I had a couple of people reach out to me and say, look, you talked about the Kings and what Rob Blake said to you, they're looking for a lefty and they're looking for a scorer. They know Tyler Toffoli. They can handle his extra year, they've got a lot of cap flexibility. You know, I just heard some people say to me, you know, it's as much logic is it is actual intel, but there are things about that that makes sense.
Jeff Marek [00:04:01] And that would be a great family setup as well. Going back to Los Angeles, that's probably not exactly a secret either. You know also on that show, when we talked about Tyler Toffoli, we also talked about Christian Dvorak, just because I have that dumb junior hockey brand I said, hey, Christian Dvorak, how about a fit in Calgary reunited with his old London Knights junior linemate Matthew Tkachuk but.
Elliotte Friedman [00:04:18] Yup.
Jeff Marek [00:04:19] Christian Dvorak's name is out there too.
Elliotte Friedman [00:04:21] Look, he's had a nightmare of a year. Just been a horrible nightmare year for him. But I think everybody recognises he's a better player than he gets credit for this year. And I think there's some teams in the West in particular that have looked at him and are interested in him and are, you know, kind of going up and down. On their list of people to acquire? He's on it. I don't have specifics yet, but I think he's definitely got some teams out there looking at him.
Jeff Marek [00:04:49] Rick Bowness, head coach, Dallas Stars.
Elliotte Friedman [00:04:51] So, you know, after the wildness the last couple of days, you know, after Dave Tippett, I was talking to someone and I said, who's next? Someone said to me, you know, I think maybe Dallas. I said, really? You know, I was kind of surprised at that. And I asked around and I heard a couple other people say that they think the Dallas was kind of looking around to see what was out there. And I looked into it and the Stars really wouldn't say anything but, if they were gonna do anything they probably would've done it already. They came out of the chute, they beat Nashville in a really good entertaining game the other night.
Jeff Marek [00:05:24] Good game.
Elliotte Friedman [00:05:24] Yup. And I think they've decided that they're sticking with Rick Bowness for now, we'll see where everything goes at the end of the season, but I think they at least looked into the possibility, and I think it's just because they've been so inconsistent that they kind of looked into it.
Jeff Marek [00:05:37] It seems as if right now the Dallas Stars seem frozen until the owner can figure out who exactly this team is. And until then, I don't, I don't get the sense that there's going to be any moves. Do you get that same feeling?
Elliotte Friedman [00:05:48] Well, I just think also that the other issue is, you know, they've gotta make some long term decisions like I do think Klingberg is gonna get traded, potentially sooner rather than later. But you've also got to make your decision about what you're doing in goal, and you've got to make a decision about Joe Pavelski so there's, there's a lot to unpack there. I think the biggest thing is is that they've been frustrated by their inconsistency. They think they should be better. You know, I think also the other thing is, I think that team, at least up front, is starting to get turned over to Jason Robertson and Roope Hintz?
Jeff Marek [00:06:21] Big time.
Elliotte Friedman [00:06:21] And what does that mean? I think they've got a lot of big decisions to make.
Jeff Marek [00:06:25] And you know who are due new contracts out for this season? We'll start that discussion. Jason Robertson and Roope Hintz.
Elliotte Friedman [00:06:31] Funny how that works eh?
Jeff Marek [00:06:32] John Tortorella, assistant coach?
Elliotte Friedman [00:06:34] No, no, I I heard, I heard some rumours and I asked him and he laughed and said I'd be the worst assistant coach ever. You know I actually, I should say I didn't write this in my notes, I should have. Somebody was saying to me like, Nikolai Khabibulin, goalie coach in Montreal. I mean, what do you do like, do you just reunite all of the ex-Lightning who are gonna end up there but, you know Khabibulin was always very passionate about playing net?
Jeff Marek [00:07:00] Absolutely he was. Jack Eichel's imminent return. How does Vegas do this?
Elliotte Friedman [00:07:06] So Mark Stone doesn't play the other night in Calgary, and everybody starts wondering, okay, is this what's gonna happen here? And there's a great Twitter feed, it's man games lost NHL. As a matter of fact, the owner and operator of it sent out a note that he's willing to put it up for sale. It's mangameslost.com Because he does it in several different sports. I've traded DMs with him.
Jeff Marek [00:07:36] You're buying it?
Elliotte Friedman [00:07:36] No I'm not, I don't think I'm buying it.
Jeff Marek [00:07:39] You're buying CapFriendly? Who, what are you buying, are you in the market now? Puckpedia?
Elliotte Friedman [00:07:44] You know what I'm buying right now? Is, I'm buying you a new line so you don't, your show doesn't keep falling off the station, the Jeff Marek show.
Jeff Marek [00:07:52] Yeah, that was pretty bad on Thursday and apologise, I should apologise for that.
Elliotte Friedman [00:07:55] Oh it happens. Nathan Currier is the name of the person who runs it, and we've traded some DMs before, I think his work is really interesting. But, you know, one of the things I think Vegas always knew is that injuries are a factor, and if you take a look at them this year coming out of the All-Star break, they were fifth in the league this year in man games lost due to injury. And you know, they've got obviously Eichel there now, and they've got Alec Martinez there now and you know if Mark Stone does go on LTIRr, it solves all their problems. You know, he's at nine and a half million, if you put him there, and you send down a couple of the players were kind of at the fringe of their roster, you can activate Eichel when he's ready and Martinez when he's ready. So I think they always kind of knew that there was a possibility about health that could make the decision as opposed to a trade. And we'll see. And I know if it happens people are gonna scream bloody murder but Jeff, as far as I'm concerned it's long gone, like it's done here.
Jeff Marek [00:08:52] So that argument is finished like to the point of ridicule, like to the point where I want it to happen, I want them to win the Stanley Cup, and at the postgame celebration, I want them to show up with an LTIR t-shirt.
Elliotte Friedman [00:09:04] A shirt that says 10 million over the cap?
Jeff Marek [00:09:07] Yeah, or just says LTIR on it very not-so-subtly.
Elliotte Friedman [00:09:10] You know, the one thing I do believe is that the NHL is trying to at least be more diligent on how much they monitor it. I wrote earlier this year about Shea Weber, and for example, when the Canadiens were out west this year, Weber had to see the doctors and they made also Weber go to Montreal one extra time at least to go see the doctors. And, okay, you know, are we sure here that this individual can't play? And I think that's one thing that teams have asked for is more diligent monitoring of it, but he legitimately has a back injury, he's missed 20 games this year, Stone. And the one thing is, is that, you know, Kelly McCrimmon was very tight lipped about it, but obviously, you know, you want your people to be healthy. But if you can pull this off, they would do it just like anybody else would try it.
Jeff Marek [00:10:04] Elliotte, LTIR shirts, come on. You know that's a hit. You know that's a hit
Elliotte Friedman [00:10:09] I liked last year, eighteen million over the cap.
Jeff Marek [00:10:11] Everything he did was great last year, who's getting you on the ice and off the ice specifically at that post Stanley Cup winning celebration press conference, which will go down in infamy. Gina Kingsbury, Theresa Feaster.
Elliotte Friedman [00:10:24] Gina Kingsbury is working for Team Canada at the Olympics.
Jeff Marek [00:10:26] Yep.
Elliotte Friedman [00:10:27] Theresa Feaster's working for Team USA. You know, we've talked about this a bit. We've seen Vancouver, they added Cammi Granato the other night, that I don't know whether it's going to be Vancouver or it's gonna be elsewhere, but I think they are two people who are on the radar. And as we've talked about, maybe some of the players who might choose to retire. I think the most interesting one is going to be, you know, Marie-Philip Poulin, what does she want to do? I gotta think there's gonna be a ton of interest in her, but I don't necessarily think she's anywhere close to retiring yet so, that's kind of where we are.
Jeff Marek [00:10:59] You can probably throw Hilary Knight into that mix as well.
Elliotte Friedman [00:11:02] Yeah, Hilary Knight I think is absolutely a name too, for sure. Maybe I'm just biased in favour of my Canadiana, but Hilary Knight's a a great call as well.
Jeff Marek [00:11:10] Tomas Hertl and the San Jose Sharks.
Elliotte Friedman [00:11:13] Well this was Joe Will, he had a media availability with the San Jose reporters on Thursday, he's the acting general manager, and he just said that there had been talks with Craig Oster, who represents Tomas Hertl. It sounds like it's still kind of in the early stages like to me it reads like it's one of those things that, what's happened here is I think a bunch of teams around the All-Star break and some time off for their team said, okay, let's start getting some business done. And it sounds to me like Joe Will and Craid Oster had some conversations and basically they said, okay, he wants to stay, we want him to stay, and now they're gonna get down to business. I think the one thing that was interesting about his answer is that, you know, they asked him what happens if you get to the deadline and unsigned, and everybody answers this differently, but I thought Will's answer was really interesting.
Elliotte Friedman [00:12:30] Let's see where we, where we go here. But you know, I think they know what kind of deal it's gonna take, and it's, it's a big deal. And the one thing I wanted to add was ,I was told that when it comes to the Kane, the Evander Kane grievance about his contract, that whatever the timeline is going to be, it's going to be at a point where the Sharks are going to be able to prepare for next season. They're going to know what the outcome is gonna be well enough in advance to plan for next season.
Jeff Marek [00:13:07] That's in reference then to salary cap ramifications of this grievance.
Elliotte Friedman [00:13:11] Yes.
Jeff Marek [00:13:11] So they'll be able to economically plan for, they've got plenty of runway then to plan for next season economically.
Elliotte Friedman [00:13:17] That's what I was told. I was told that they would have enough runway.
Jeff Marek [00:13:20] Pavel Zacha, interest in the New Jersey Devils forward, who is an RFA with arbitration rights.
Elliotte Friedman [00:13:26] Yes. And you know, the thing about Zacha is, you know, big centre like, you know, people are gonna be interested in him and, you know, maybe I just haven't been watching Jersey enough, but someone said to me, you know, he's not really a centre anymore this year. And I said, really? And then, you know, I looked and you know, he has been playing a bit on the wing. His faceoffs are down like, he's a lefty. Hischier's a lefty and Hischier is really good, he's a 54% guy. And I understand that Jack Hughes, he's gotta learn how to take faceoffs, right? He's gotta learn, you've gotta learn the skill.
Jeff Marek [00:13:55] That's a strength thing. That's, I'm convinced that's just a strength thing. We see this with kids all the time.
Elliotte Friedman [00:14:00] I think that's totally right. But I also understand that the Devils are committed to the bit. Like I get that. And so, you know, Zacha's not taking many faceoffs anymore. So, you know, one team was saying to me, like, is he a centre or a winger, and it may not be what New Jersey thinks, it may be what the other team thinks. And so I just thought that was really interesting.
Jeff Marek [00:14:19] Hey, listen, if there are teams that are interested, you want me to go back to my junior hockey nonsense again, Matthew Tkachuk and Christian Dvorak? You know, he played with Jordan Kyrou on the Sarnia Sting thing in the OHL I'm just sayin. Robert Thomas is there, he's going nowhere, those two are excellent together.
Elliotte Friedman [00:14:32] [He] does seem like a kind of St. Louis type of guy, though.
Jeff Marek [00:14:35] Hm big body?
Elliotte Friedman [00:14:36] Yeah.
Jeff Marek [00:14:37] 100%. Nick Paul, played the battalion under Stan Butler. No, I'm not gonna go that route anymore. Nick Paul though, with the Ottawa Senators, decision time here no?
Elliotte Friedman [00:14:47] Well, it's getting there and Ottawa's way is to kind of play these out, you know, all the way down to the line. If you look at the last couple of years, you know, Matt Duchene, they waited close to the deadline, they trade him. Mark Stone was traded literally minutes before the deadline. Erik Karlsson was almost traded right before the deadline with Vegas, that one fell apart, and then he was traded, you know, next season to San Jose. There are teams out there are definitely interested in him, why not.
Jeff Marek [00:15:15] Of course.
Elliotte Friedman [00:15:15] I think he's an easy fit in a lot of places it's, but you know one team said to me, he goes, you know, respectfully, Nick Paul, he's a good player. This is not, you know, an $80 million contract. And you know, he said, like, that's the kind of deal that you know, Ottawa with all their cap room, like, that's not a back breaker. You know, he's, he finds it really hard to believe that they can't get that contract done. So it was his reaction like, we'd love to have Nick Paul but, let's just say, like, what are we talking here, 4 times 3? how hard can that be to get done?
Jeff Marek [00:15:49] Especially when you consider how versatile he is? And when this team is actually a playoff team, how valuable a player like Nick Paul would be? And technically he wasn't drafted by the Ottawa Senators, he was part of the Jason Spezza trade? Like, he's a Senator. Like his pro career, he's been an Ottawa senator Friedge.
Elliotte Friedman [00:16:07] Yeah.
Jeff Marek [00:16:07] Like, I don't know I'm, I'm with you. I kind of scratch my head at this one a little bit. Vitaly Kravtsov.
Elliotte Friedman [00:16:13] Yeah, so I think he's out there. You know, it makes a lot of sense if the Rangers are gonna make a move to include him, two interested teams that might want to try him out next year. You know one of the questions that was being asked is, is he coming back to North America? And I've been told that he's been telling teams, yes, he plans on coming back to North America, and the other thing too is that, you know, he's gonna have to go on waivers, so it's not like, you know, teams are gonna be sending him down to the minors. You know, you're gonna give him a shot to play. So obviously he's aware of that, they're aware of that, and he's planning on coming back next year.
Jeff Marek [00:16:46] All right. We're all warmed up. With that we'll kick it off. Welcome once again to 32 Thoughts the Podcast. We're back to talk about the Habs, we're back to talk about ASU, but up next, we're talking about the Oilers. That's next when 32 Thoughts returns.
Jeff Marek [00:18:09] Elliotte, I know you love that line, that is Oilers general manager Ken Holland, who's had... geez I wanna say like a tough 24 hours and then I thought about saying 42 hours, and I'll just say, he's had a tough few months. The pressure he's been under from all directions has been immense. And although, you know, we thought it might have happened in that game against the Calgary Flames had they have lost, he's always resisted, you know, taking the fire the coach route and then, for whatever reason, coming out of All-Star, lost two games where the Oilers looked really flat. Did he have no other option other than to fire Dave Tippett after the loss against Chicago Blackhawks?
Elliotte Friedman [00:18:53] So what I heard during the day was it came together quick and basically the way Holland described it, it sure did.
Elliotte Friedman [00:20:33] He strikes me as the kind of guy who would sleep on something, and he did, and he woke up in the morning and he just said it was time and changed his mind. You know what I think happened was, Ken Holland spent a lot of January fighting off the belief that he had to do something. I think internally, externally, he was under a lot of pressure as they were in that swoon to do something. And, you know, some people go crazy and they run with this and they say, oh, Daryl Katz is trying to force Ken Holland to do something. I don't, I don't even think it's so much the owner. I mean, I think overall in the organisation, there's like a feeling of, what are we gonna do here? You know the players are wondering, the coach is wondering, all the executives are wondering, the business people are wondering, people above him on the food chain are wandering, people lower than him on the food chain or wondering, the fans are wondering, the media is wondering, the other teams are wondering, we're all wondering. And I think he really tried to weather the storm. Look like, we're all talking here about what analytics matter and what don't matter, right?
Jeff Marek [00:21:33] Mhm.
Elliotte Friedman [00:21:33] Well, there were some numbers there, particularly expected goals for and against, that, you know, someone showed to Ken Holland and he said that, he used it as justification, we're getting hammered by COVID, I think we're better than we are. And there was a time there at the end of January, right before the All-Star break, that it looked like his situation was validated, his beliefs were validated. They got points in all six--in the last six games they went 5-0-and-1, and I think they really thought the worst was over. That the worst was over and they were gonna be okay. And then they came out of the All-Star break with those two games, and it just wasn't good enough. And you know what the problem is Jeff? They look listless. They really do, they don't look energetic, they don't look like a force. Like Smith took a lot of blame for that game on Wednesday night. I know there were a lot of people who didn't like the fact he played back to back, I was really surprised. And he gives up the first two goals and he gets the Bronx cheer, right?
Jeff Marek [00:22:40] Yeah.
Elliotte Friedman [00:22:40] But both of those passes went were beautiful cross-ice passes. One was a one-timer.
Elliotte Friedman [00:22:59] And the other one was a quick shot.
Elliotte Friedman [00:23:12] Like, I thought he really battled, I thought he made some unbelievable saves. Edmonton is on the abyss and they're a sloppy team. Like they're not very detail-oriented. Is that all coaching? No, I don't think it is. But you know what happens, you make the move you can make. And the easiest move to make, especially since the coach's contract was up this year, was to make that change.
Jeff Marek [00:23:37] So I spoke earlier on today with someone from a team who said, since we're talking about this situation, and he said, you know, I'm watching these last two games and they're making the same mistakes that they were making when they were on their losing streak. And the topic turned to, you know, the pressure that Holland was under. And this person said, you know, if Ken Holland would have fired Dave Tippett, you know, let's say they would have lost that Calgary game. I would have agreed that this was an owner, owner-led decision. But he said, I'm of the belief that this is Ken Holland's decision period, as much as he's under pressure from all those places that you mentioned and everybody's wondering about it, that this was Ken Holland's, and he said, I wonder if in the back of Holland's mind, he's thinking, we've just lost two games in a row. We can't go through another seven/eight game losing streak. We can't afford to do that right now. And listen, the, the All-Star break really hurt them, they were in a nice little groove. You remember that Washington game and the shorthanded game winner by Ryan Nugent-Hopkins? There was a momentum and then it just stopped. Like you know, there are some teams that need a break, Edmonton didn't. They were getting it back and they were feeling good and they were playing well. And then the break came and they came back and they went right back to making the same mistakes they made when they were on their losing streak and I think that's probably what terrified Ken Holland into making this move.
Elliotte Friedman [00:25:07] I agree with that. I agree with that completely. You know, especially this year, you have to look at points percentage, right?
Jeff Marek [00:25:13] Yes.
Elliotte Friedman [00:25:14] So before the Vegas game... So L.A. was at 0.585, and Anaheim's at 0.573, Edmonton was at 0.583. So they're right on pace with the Kings and they're ahead on Anaheim. Now they're at 0.557 with two losses. So all of a sudden, they've really lost control of their own destiny. And if they win all their games, yes, they're better. But as you said, you can't bank on that the way they came out of it. And the other thing that's a problem right now Jeff is, they have really have no practise time coming up. They have six games in the next ten days. They've got Saturday and Sunday off, but they're not really gonna be able to practise.
Jeff Marek [00:26:02] And that's too bad because you have a new coach there. Well you have two new coaches, both Jay Woodcroft and Dave Manson, who comes in, as it's not just Dave Tippett who gets relieved of his duties, but Jim Playfair as well. Who gets a bump right away? I know they're not gonna be able to practise a whole ton here, but listen, coaching change, shot of energ, you jolt the team, who gets the bump right away? I mean the first person that jumped to my mind is Evan Bouchard, who, you know, really reacted well with with Dave Manson and Jay Woodcroft in Bakersfield. Who do you think gets the jolt here, gets a little bump, because there's a few, whether it's Puljujarvi or Yamamoto or whatever. Who do you think gets the boost?
Elliotte Friedman [00:26:39] I think Bouchard is the obvious one. You know, until Koskinen gets back, I wonder. I think we all expected that Skinner was gonna play on Wednesday night, he didn't.
Jeff Marek [00:26:49] I have a theory about that.
Elliotte Friedman [00:26:51] What's your theory?
Jeff Marek [00:26:52] My theory is, first of all, Mike Smith is one of the most unique goaltenders in the game, period. And Mike Smith is very competitive, one of the most competitive goaltenders you will find in the game period. And as much as Mike Smith understands the reality of goaltending, he is also a competitor. You know, when he came out for the third period in that Vegas game, I think we were all surprised. I know I certainly was. I'm not sure if you were, but I was surprised that he came out, and I wonder if Edmonton didn't want Mike Smith to obsess about injuries or hurting himself. Mike Smith coming out, you saw the way he skated onto the ice in the third period?
Elliotte Friedman [00:27:37] Yes.
Jeff Marek [00:27:37] And he came out defiant. I'm wondering if that is the Oilers saying, we don't want Mike Smith to sit there and think about an injury. We don't want Mike Smith to think about himself, we want to get into his groove, he missed a lot of time, we just want to get him back in there. I know the analytics say, don't do this, this doesn't work. But for Mike Smith, they just wanted to get him into a groove. Now, it's risky, I get it, it's totally risky. And if he hurts himself, there's a lot of questions. But Mike Smith is a competitor that needs to get into a groove and I'm, I'm wondering Elliotte, if that's the motivation behind, he went in there back to back.
Elliotte Friedman [00:28:14] I think you're probably right, I would take it a bit further. You know, goaltending is a very technical position, and the more time you don't play, the more you tend to lose your technique. And I wondered if not only was he worried and trying to say, don't worry about injury, but he's also been off for so long I bet you there were things he wanted to work on. But you know, I think it's a really good theory. The thing I think that you said right is that, he wants to play, he just wants to play. And that probably goes back to what we were just talking about, which is, I would think that part of this is gonna be about, Dave Tippett had a bias toward certain players, right?
Jeff Marek [00:28:52] Yes.
Elliotte Friedman [00:28:52] The veterans, like he's very loyal to Mike Smith. You know whenever I hear about the word loyal, I always think about Kelly Rudy. Because we were talking about someone once and we said, you know what? He's too loyal to people. And Kelly Rudy said, boy, if that's the worst thing anyone ever says about me, you know, I'll take it.
Jeff Marek [00:29:10] I'm doing all right.
Elliotte Friedman [00:29:11] That I'm too loyal to people. You know, I think that, you know, Tippett certainly had a loyalty to certain players. And I just think that part of this is, we need to break that loyalty. We need to try something new. And I think that maybe Skinner will be a little bit of that, they're calling up Broberg for injury reasons. You know, maybe Bouchard will be another part of that. I don't think there's any question that Tippett had his preferences, and I think they just said it's time to try something else. You know, I think the other thing too that's really interesting is that everybody talked about how Ken Holland had never fired a coach during the season before. Dave Tippett had never been fired during the season before, and he was proud of that. As tough as it was for Holland to do it, I think it was hard for Tippett because that's never happened to him, and that was a point of pride for him.
Jeff Marek [00:30:07] Absolutely. Safe to say though, Edmonton still in the goalie market in a big way?
Elliotte Friedman [00:30:12] You know, we've talked before, I think they offered like a fifth rounder for Martin Jones. We mentioned on the radio today that we both heard that at least at one point they were asked for a second and a third for Korpisalo, and maybe that changed I.
Jeff Marek [00:30:26] Yeah.
Elliotte Friedman [00:30:26] Some people told me that kind of changed, but I do think at one point in time that was the offer. I've had people tell me that they suspect that the goalie Edmonton likes is Husso. But if I'm St. Louis, even though Husso is an unrestricted free agent, I'm trying to win the Stanley Cup.
Jeff Marek [00:30:44] I get it. It's always a delicate balance of managing assets and trying to win, and right now that's in conflict.
Elliotte Friedman [00:30:53] In goal. I'm trying to win the Stanley Cup.
Jeff Marek [00:30:55] Just so our listeners understand, Ville Husso is and has been the backup goaltender to Jordan Binnington, he's having a fantastic season, before Binnington popped on their on their Stanley Cup run he was considered the goaltender of the future, having, as I mentioned, having a great season. His contract when it expires this season will make him an unrestricted free agent at the age of 27 and a very highly sought after free agent. we should add as well.
Elliotte Friedman [00:31:17] Yeah.
Jeff Marek [00:31:17] Just so everyone understands the Ville Husso situation.
Elliotte Friedman [00:31:20] So I've heard they like him but if I was St. Louis, I'm not one that right now. You know unless you give me a better situation to back up Binnington, I don't think I would do it.
Jeff Marek [00:31:42] Okay, so to the other coaching situation, and this one was a stunner, this one is interesting and it almost has... I'll tell you Friedge, it almost has a Walt Disney movie-esque element about it. Hall of Fame NHL superstar takes over the reins of, you know, the crown jewel of the NHL, the longest serving franchise, the legendary Montreal Canadiens who find themselves in last place. He finds himself behind the bench, having never coached at the NHL level, having come in after only coaching, you know, 13 year old AAA players and it's up to him to save the franchise. All of that has, this has Walt Disney movie written all over it, like when you just pull back, because we all look at this and say, oh hold on a second. How can Martin St. Louis go behind the bench of the fabled Montreal Canadiens who find themselves in last place here? Where did this one come from? There is a Disney-esque element to all of this. How do you see the situation? Dom Ducharme removed are relieved of his duties. Martin St. Louis takes over.
Elliotte Friedman [00:32:49] I think I was as surprised as everybody else that it was St. Louis. I think they were considering a coaching change, I had absolutely no doubt about that. I really believed that if they made a long term change, there was a better than zero chance that it was gonna be Jim Montgomery. That was the guy who I kind of had focused on? Kent Hughes and Jim Montgomery are tight, and I believe Hughes represented him.
Jeff Marek [00:33:16] Played together and cegep too.
Elliotte Friedman [00:33:18] Played together at cegep, long history there like, that was the guy I was kind of focussed on. And there were some people who know them both better who weren't surprised like Jeff Gorton has had a long like for St. Louis. You know, I think when they were hiring David Quinn in New York, I know there was some talk about, would St. Louis be interested? And I think they did at least talk to him about it. Kent Hughes and St. Louis, like Kent Hughes didn't rep St. Louis. Their kids played on the same team and they became friends like, they would go to Michigan together to watch their kids play, and they became really tight. And I think that this was always part of the plan that if St. Louis wanted the opportunity to be the long term coach of the Montreal Canadiens, he was gonna have the opportunity to do it. And to me, they just wanted to accelerate it. And if you look at Jeff Gorton, okay. He was shocked by what happened to him in New York, okay?
Jeff Marek [00:34:18] Yes. Yes.
Elliotte Friedman [00:34:19] I don't think that they really saw it unfolding the way it unfolded. I think there was a lot of surprise and there was a lot of shock. And what I think Jeff Gorton, who I think is a really smart person, has learned going into Montreal and a new situation. I'm going to surround myself with people that I trust. Look, he obviously trusts Kent Hughes, he went through that whole process and went to Hughes at the end and Hughes got the job. And Hughes and him both trust Marty St. Louis. And so he's put someone there who he knows and trusts. And the other thing I really think is, they've gotta to make some big choices. They've got to make some really big decisions on players. And I think he just felt that we need someone new in there to help us make the decisions, someone we know who's gonna be in that room every day telling us what's really going on and who's part of the problem and who's part of the solution. And I don't think that makes Marty St. Louis a spy because I was talking about that with someone, someone saw me say that on air on Wednesday and they said, you think St. Louis is a spy? And I said, no, I don't believe that, that's not what I think at all. I don't think he's a spy. I think he wants the players to do well. But I think he's also there to give information. Like he's their conduit. He's a voice that they know and trust to be the person who tells them who's who we should keep, and here's who we shouldn't keep. And they've got some big choices to make. And I think they wanted St. Louis in there to help them make those choices.
Jeff Marek [00:35:52] Let me colour that with another colour here. Further to that point, I look at the Montreal Canadiens. Jeff Gorton with the organisation, new. Kent Hughes with the organisation, new. I look at everything that Montreal is doing this season, okay, and these guys have come in in the middle of the season. This isn't like they've had a fresh start, they had a summer to plan. They've been parachuted in here. And everything they do is all about one thing: gathering information. That's it. Jeff Gorton is doing it. Kent Hughes is doing it. And now Martin St. Louis is doing it. And I don't think it's a matter of like, oh he's there to be the snitch behind the bench, I'm with you. I think he's there to say, here are some of the things that you might be missing out. Here's some of the things you might not know about these players, good and bad. And I think that's valuable to Kent Hughes. Let's not forget here, Kent Hughes is about to make franchise-changing decisions. Jeff Gorton is about to make franchise-changing decisions. Before you do that, do you not owe it to the organisation to have as much information at your disposal before you make these moves? Because if you don't, I think we can accuse you of being frivolous and just making moves based on reputation, hearsay, whatever else you may make your moves on. I think St. Louis is there to provide important information from someone who's close to being an NHL player. He's there understanding these guys, he's they're understanding these players. He was one of them. To me this is all just in service of the one initiative from everyone in the organisation right now above him. And that is gather information. And that's all that it is, that's all that it is.
Elliotte Friedman [00:37:26] I mostly agree with you. I think if there's one thing I'd say, it's also about that, is I think that you can't let your young players think that the way they're playing right now is okay. In my career. One of the things I learned don't worry about is ratings. Okay? Don't worry about how many people are watching the game that we're doing or... how many people are downloading the podcast or how many people are reading the blog, I think that takes care of itself, right? But I think you have to approach it like eleventy billion people are reading it. It's the Michael Jordan thing that a February game, our record could be 50 and 10, and I'm going into a team that's 2 and 48. But there's some fan here who bought a ticket to see me, right? Like I always admire that that's the way he looked at things. He always found reason to try and put on a show. And I've told that story about the one Raptor game many times, and I've always kind of tried to look at it that way in the sense of, you know what? Like someone's tuning in, they're giving me their time, and I'm only gonna be successful if I treat it like, hey, this is an important show or this is an important podcast, I gotta give it my all. Now I will freely admit that many times I come well short of that standard, but I always try, and I think that's the thing that's been missing from the Canadiens and part of it I do think Jeff and we've had this argument is about the fact that there's no fans there. And I think it makes the atmosphere terrible and they're having an awful year and it makes it even worse. But I think you have to show up and play. I think you have to show up and compete. It's your reputation as a professional. And that game the other night, I am not surprised in the least.
Jeff Marek [00:39:16] The Devils game, 7-1, yeah.
Elliotte Friedman [00:39:18] That they came out and made the change. I don't think that's all on Dominique Ducharme. I don't think it's all his fault. But I think that what they're saying is that, whatever reason, he's lost the ability to get them to play harder than that. And we have to go try to find something else now.
Jeff Marek [00:39:33] And then when you hear players like Josh Anderson, come on afterwards and talk about how embarrassing it is.
Jeff Marek [00:40:06] That's just another log on the fire and you say to yourself, okay, something has to change here. One final thing on Martin St. Louis, because I thought it was pretty funny. What was the line you had in there, the section you had in your blog about Martin St. Louis and ice time?
Elliotte Friedman [00:40:21] So I had one of his former coaches who said to me, I can't wait for the first time that a player goes up to him with the sheet stat sheet and says, you didn't use me enough, because apparently he was famous for that. Like he would check the stat sheet and if he didn't get the ice time he felt he deserved, he would go to his coach and say, are you kidding me? Like you didn't use me enough. So one coach said, I can't wait for the first time. St. Louis does that.
Jeff Marek [00:40:47] I thought it was only minor slash youth hockey dads that did that.
Elliotte Friedman [00:40:51] NHL players.
Jeff Marek [00:40:53] Cammi Granato. You mentioned her earlier. She leaves the Seattle Kraken, she had a scouting position, to join the management team of the Vancouver Canucks. She is now an assistant general manager, so that management team looks like Jim Rutherford. Patrick Allvin, Émilie Castonguay is an AGM, ditto Derek Clancy and now Cammi Granato as well, Ryan Johnson, by the way, Senior Director of Player Development, General Manager of the Abbotsford Canucks The Cammi Granato hiring, your thoughts?
Elliotte Friedman [00:41:20] Well I think that there were gonna be some options there. We were talking earlier on about, you know what, Theresa Feaster and Gina Kingsbury.
Jeff Marek [00:41:28] Yup.
Elliotte Friedman [00:41:28] Like I think there were gonna be some options for Cammi. She said in her interview, er, media conference, that kind of accelerated in the last 10 days.
Elliotte Friedman [00:42:08] Early this morning I'd said something similar on, on Vancouver radio because that's what I heard, I heard it, it really kind of accelerated in Vancouver pretty recently because I think there was some work going on out there that I think there were some other teams that were maybe interested.
Jeff Marek [00:42:26] Mhm.
Elliotte Friedman [00:42:26] And I think Vancouver knew if they wanted to get her, they'd better get moving. You know, I think that's what she wanted. I mean, it's her family. That's where her base is. I'm glad it worked out. I don't think the Canucks are done yet. I think it's possible they could add another female to the staff.
Jeff Marek [00:42:52] Today the Arizona Board of Regents approved a development plan for a multi-purpose arena, this is the one we've been talking about recently, and this does include the Coyotes' amendments, so the Coyotes will play at ASU for the next three seasons that could, as we now know, could be extended as well. This is really happening Elliotte. This is really happening.
Elliotte Friedman [00:43:15] I'm not willing to say it's really happening yet.
Jeff Marek [00:43:17] Contingent on the rink in Tempe?
Elliotte Friedman [00:43:19] Well, I just--I apparently the agreement is not contingent on the rink. People think that the Tempe vote's gonna take place in somewhere in March or April, right?
Jeff Marek [00:43:27] Mhm.
Elliotte Friedman [00:43:28] And so what if they say no, the team's gonna to sit there and play at Arizona State for three years?
Jeff Marek [00:43:33] That's what we're all wondering. That's why I keep throwing that Montreal Expos idea out there. You know, at the end of it, who knows how votes go. If they don't get the votes and they don't get the rink, what then?
Elliotte Friedman [00:43:44] Can you honestly see a situation where if they don't get the rink, they're playing an Arizona State next year?
Jeff Marek [00:43:49] No, that's why I think, and again, this is just a theory, that they sell the team back to the league, the league puts it up for auction, and ends up somewhere else.
Elliotte Friedman [00:43:57] I think you could be right. I'm just saying about next year, they're not playing in Arizona State if there's not a rink coming.
Jeff Marek [00:44:03] No.
Elliotte Friedman [00:44:03] It's just such a bad, bad look. So, you know, if you look at the economics of the deal, Arizona State gets the naming rights for the arena. Arizona State gets the sponsorships. The Coyotes get the gate. The Coyotes get a piece of the concessions. The coyotes get merchandise sales.
Jeff Marek [00:44:22] Yup.
Elliotte Friedman [00:44:22] They get some kind of parking revenue, although not the majority of it. But there's two things we don't know yet. Number one, what's the capacity? There's no commitment on capacity. Now it's listed 5,000. We've reported 32. I had someone tell me today they think it's gonna be somewhere between 35 and 4. We'll see. And then the other thing is, apparently there are some models out there that show an average ticket price that's pretty high.
Jeff Marek [00:44:52] Mhm.
Elliotte Friedman [00:44:52] But, you know as someone said to me, you can model anything you want. What's your reality? So I think that's the question we've gotta figure out here is, what is the average ticket price there are going to be. You know, for example, some of these are supposed to be bleacher seats. Can you sell a bleacher seat for a high ticket price? Like I had people tell me you can't do that. I had the people tell me, well, I think I could sell anything, just I'd have to think about that one a little bit.
Jeff Marek [00:45:23] One of the questions that I have is, when you're watching this, like, I'm watching this on my NHL package, does it look like they're playing in a rink for the Coyotes or does it look like they're renting ASU? Like, Is there Sun Devil branding everywhere? Is there Sun Devil branding on the ice, or does it look like it's the Arizona Coyotes rink?
Elliotte Friedman [00:45:48] I think they're gonna have the opportunity to make the games look like a Coyotes game when they're playing. What I'm really curious about is, what center ice is gonna look like. Is it gonna be a Sun Devil coyote?
Jeff Marek [00:46:03] Hey, do we know who owns Rink Board?
Elliotte Friedman [00:46:05] Well, that's also sponsorships for the Arizona State. I think the question is, are they gonna be able to change sponsorship during games? I don't know.
Jeff Marek [00:46:12] That's my question. Because you can do that.
Elliotte Friedman [00:46:14] Yeah, I don't know the answer. You remember that beer commercial where where the one actor says, this is a travesty, a sham and a mockery? It's a traves-shamockery?
Jeff Marek [00:46:35] Oh god, how do you remember that?
Elliotte Friedman [00:46:37] Oh it was such a great commercial, we used to use that word all the time. So that way you can morph the Sun Devil and the Coyote into a Sun Devil-yote.
Jeff Marek [00:46:49] You remember the commercial where, your chocolate's in my peanut butter, hey, they're great together? That's kind of like that one do.
Elliotte Friedman [00:46:55] There's one Coyotes fan who got really angry about something I say on your radio show, and they sent me a very long DM. And what I said was, Gary Bettman has fought harder for the Coyotes than some of their fans, and this person said to me, like, that's a joke. We care about our hockey team, like there are real hardcore Coyotes fans. We have proven that we care about our hockey team, and that's over the line. Okay, you know that's fair. Look, a lot of us are mocking all of this. You know who I saw was really happy today? Were actual Coyotes fans. So let's give them their due. This is a good day for them. I think there's a lot of other people who really don't like this, and they think it's a bad look for the league and they wonder if this is ever seriously going to happen. But it's a victory for the hardcore Coyote fans, one of whom was extremely upset by something I said. And on that, I salute them.
Jeff Marek [00:47:55] I know the economics of this don't look good and won't be good. But if I try to look for some type of silver lining here, to your point, hardcore Coyotes fans are happy here. They got a rink. And two, this is gonna look different and feel different in this intimate setting. I just hope it's a wild one.
Elliotte Friedman [00:48:19] Your one real hope here is to turn this into a great atmosphere. Let's just say, for example, you're charging $250 a ticket. Are you going to be able to get that kind of atmosphere at $250 a ticket?
Jeff Marek [00:48:33] To borrow a wrestling analogy, if this like ECW arena and it's crazy with fans like that? Absolutely. Are you getting that at $200 a ticket, though? I'm with you. I don't know if that's gonna happen. All right. Elliotte. Before we wrap up, I think a couple of words about the now former executive director of the PHF Players Association, Alex Sinatra, who we had on our podcast a couple of weeks ago, and then I think a lot of people were shocked, surprised when she was dismissed from her position shortly after her appearance on this podcast.
Elliotte Friedman [00:49:08] I had some people who asked me if we were gonna address it, and I kind of wanted to collect my thoughts about it first. You know Jeff like, I just remember when it was unfolding, you know, I was surprised about some things about players not knowing what's in their contracts. And I thought Alex made some really bold statements, but I don't have a problem with that. That's her opinion. And if that's her opinion, I'm okay with it. I guess some other people weren't and it resulted in her losing her job. I was really surprised when I heard it. I don't really know what else to say, I haven't spoken to Alex since. I think this podcast should be a place where people can come on and say what they really think.
Jeff Marek [00:49:52] Mhm.
Elliotte Friedman [00:49:52] You know honestly Jeff, I'm still surprised at it, I guess, I really am. I don't think we tripped her up, I don't think we did anything untoward. You know one of the things I've learnt over the years is that, you know, women's hockey is still like, at the professional level. It's a really evolving place in North America. And the more things grow and the more of us are gonna be talking about women's hockey like, the more this is gonna happen. With increased focus, there's a lot of good that comes with that. Players get more attention, the league gets more attention, more people are exposed to it. But also with that comes a lot of scrutiny. And anybody who follows, for example, the NHL knows that there's a lot of positive press the NHL gets, but there's a lot of negative press the NHL gets, that comes with the territory. And I think you just have to be aware of that, that not everything is going to be judged positively and not everything is going to be easily accepted. And I think you just have to learn to understand that that's going to happen sometimes.
Jeff Marek [00:50:57] So here's how I look at it Elliotte. I look at the entire situation as, and you know, you mentioned like the women's game now that is becoming more popular and is getting more attention is gonna be more highly scrutinised. And I think that's a good thing. I think that shows growth. But what I look at right now and the situation with Alex Sinatra and the PHF from a couple of weeks ago now, I look at it as a growing pain for the women's game. And there are, you know, have there been missteps by the PHF? Yes. By their players association? Yes. Have there been missteps by the PWHPA? Yes. But I don't think that that's any different than any other league. Like if you measure it off against, you know, a very slick and professional NHL, of course it's not gonna measure up well. But I always encourage people, because I heard a lot of like, oh look at this, it's all the women can't get their act together, all this is a joke like all this is, you know, they're fumbling around. Like, if you wanna talk about fumbling around, you know, don't look at the NHL now and compare it to where the women's game is at, go back to the beginning of the NHL. Or should I say, the NHA, the forerunner of the NHL? Because the baptism from the NHA to the NHL was a doublecross. Was a bunch of owners stabbing Eddie Livingston in the back to start what we now know as the NHL and go back and study and read about the early years of the NHL, you would say the exact same thing about that league. How can this league succeed with these people running it? It is calamity after calamity. It is despicable behaviour writ large. I think this is just a part of the growing pains of the women's game right now. It's getting bigger, it's getting more popular. There's another big pressure point coming at the end of this Olympic cycle Elliotte, you and I have talked about this plenty. We know there's gonna be many more hires of women around the national programmes in the Canada and the United States. And I think what we just saw in the in the PHF and this is right on the heels of a commitment from ownership for $25 million and full benefits and, you know, doubling of salary caps, et cetera. This is a growing pain. And this is what leagues go through. And I don't look at it as anything other than that. I don't look at it as the same way that people who have used the the situation with Alex Sinatra as a, you know, a pinata just, you know, take another whack at that women's hockey. I don't think that's right. And I think that you can compare with the, the women's game is doing right now to where the men's game is at, they have a, over a 100 year head start on this for crying out loud.
Elliotte Friedman [00:53:37] Mhm.
Jeff Marek [00:53:37] I just think that this is a phase right now that women's hockey is going through and each phase along the way, I think we need to cut the women's game a lot of slack because much like the men, over a century ago when hockey was, whether it was codified in Nova Scotia or it was codified in McGill University in Montreal, there's been a lot of fumbling along the way. And we look at where the game is at now we say, wow what a wonderful product. Don't measure the women's game up against where the NHL is at right now. I think that's unfair. And I just look at the situation with the PHF and their now former executive director and say, this is what leagues go through, and you just hope that they learn from it and move on. That's how I see it.
Elliotte Friedman [00:54:18] Well said.
Jeff Marek [00:54:19] Taking us out is BUD, a rock band out of Toronto. Now if you like the spirit of Canadiana and are one to keep your stick on the ice, then this BUD's for you. Nice script Amil. The band is playing their debut show at Sneaky Dee's, oh I love Sneaky Dee's, great nachos, try the nachos.
Elliotte Friedman [00:54:37] Yes.
Jeff Marek [00:54:37] Debut show at Sneaky Dee's, boy those nachos are good, whether it's 11 at night or 3 o'clock in the morning Elliotte, I know you've been there. Their debut show at Sneaky Dee's--
Elliotte Friedman [00:54:46] I might go there now.
Jeff Marek [00:54:47] Toronto, March 11. Oh, I love Sneaky Dee's. With their single, Nowhere, here's BUD on 32 Thoughts the Podcast.