Jeff and Elliotte discuss the comments made by Rocky Wirtz at the Chicago Blackhawks town hall, Pat Verbeek's first move as the new general manager of the Anaheim Ducks, and Elliotte tells us about his conversations with David Poile, Bill Guerin, and Rob Blake.
The Chicago Blackhawks held a town hall on Wednesday. Jeff and Elliotte discuss the comments made by Rocky Wirtz, how this might change the Blackhawks approach when it comes to their GM search, and what the NHL might do as the league gets ready for All-Star weekend in Las Vegas,
The guys also chat about Pat Verbeek and what his first move might be as the new general manager of the Anaheim Ducks (22:30), and Elliotte tells us about his conversations with David Poile (34:15), Bill Guerin (37:40), and Rob Blake (40:30). Plus, a SURPRISE In-Season Cup update!
Full transcript for the episode can be found here by Medha Monjaury
Music Outro: Jay Feelbender - Cheap Whiskey
Listen to the entire track by Jay Feelbender on Spotify
This podcast is produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.
Audio Credits: Chicago Tribune, Detroit Free Press and Turner Sports.
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.
Jeff Marek [00:01:18] That was Wednesday. And with that, we welcome you to the 32 Thoughts Podcast presented by the all-new GMC AT4 Lineup. Elliotte, that was stunning, shocking, disappointing, I don't know how else to describe it, although there are plenty of adjectives. As you were watching this live, what's going through your mind here Friedge?
Elliotte Friedman [00:01:38] You know what I thought Jeff?
Jeff Marek [00:01:40] What's that?
Elliotte Friedman [00:01:40] I thought I was watching Succession.
Jeff Marek [00:01:43] Hmm.
Elliotte Friedman [00:01:44] Do you watch Succession?
Jeff Marek [00:01:45] I have never seen it, but I've heard all about it.
Elliotte Friedman [00:01:48] There are times in that show where it's so uncomfortable because Logan Roy, who's, you know, the father and the most powerful person in the company, he'll lash out and people will try to stop him, and it just doesn't matter. He's the most powerful person, and everybody is intimidated by him and afraid of his power and what he could do with that power. And they don't stop him. Like as you said, I was watching it live and I was shocked because I didn't understand what had happened. I actually thought that maybe somebody off-camera that we didn't know who it was had said something that had set off Rocky Wirtz, because the question that Mark Lazerus asked. I spoke to Kyle Davidson a couple of months ago, and he talked about, your general manager at this time, interim general manager, one, you're tasked with dealing with the hockey team, but also at a time where you're trying to rebuild the reputation of the franchise. And we started talking about that and he said, look, I really don't want to go into it because we're gonna do a press conference on this in a few months and I think it's proper that we roll it out in a certain way at that time. So they've been preparing for this for a while. They announced that the event would be held a week before. Like Jeff, you know what's going on? They're doing dry runs, they're doing rehearsals, they're prepping all the questions.
Jeff Marek [00:03:27] Yeah.
Elliotte Friedman [00:03:27] Like I'm sure some of those questions were pre-picked but, they had to know that question was coming. To me that was the most shocking thing about all of it is they had to know that that question was coming.
Jeff Marek [00:03:40] This was the first time that Rocky Wirtz has faced questions since the Kyle Beach Block and Jenner report came out. So, to your point, Rocky must have known, the Blackhawks must have known, whether it was gonna be at the town hall, whether it was gonna be somewhere down the road. The question was coming. You had months to prepare for it. And to your point about this being, you know, a belt high fastball. I mean, this was a tap-in. This was a lay-up. This was an easy one, even by Lazerus's own admission. It was a soft question. Like, there's some questions that you throw out to people to give them a shine spot. This was a place where the Blackhawks could have shone. This was a place where Chicago Blackhawks could've said, Mark, thank you. You know, as much as we don't want to look backwards and want to look forwards, here's what we are going to do to make sure blah blah blah blah blah, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. It was a potentially great moment. But instead, like it almost seemed as if, a couple of things to me: one, Rocky Wirtz to me seemed like in his mind, he was an aggrieved party and didn't want to discuss it. Like somehow he was victimized because he had to pay Kyle Beach? And also, you know, I look at Rocky Wirtz and that dynamic between him and his son, Danny. And I said, you know, that's really troubling. As Danny was prepared to say something, Rocky cut him off. His dad cut him off. I want to get to that dynamic here in a sec Friedge. But one thing I do want to ask you, I'm very curious about. I wonder through all of it, because the TNT panel discussed it and most specifically, not to discredit, you know, anything that any of the other panelists had to say about it, but when Wayne Gretzky commented on it.
Elliotte Friedman [00:05:35] Yeah.
Jeff Marek [00:05:35] The way that he did, and Wayne Gretzky isn't exactly known for having adversarial takes against the NHL, any teams, like he's really smart thinker like he's Wayne Gretzky, but he's not known for confrontation. He's known for conversation. Like there are only two instances where, you know there were moments where you say, okay, this is Wayne Gretzky going off-script or demonstrating that he is perturbed at something. One was the Arizona situation where he was owed money by the team, and the other, as frivolous as it may seem now, was in the '94-'95 lockout, where he grew a goatee. But like, other than that, like, this isn't what Wayne does. I saw that on TNT, and I said, if you've got to the point where Wayne Gretzky is commenting on this thing, all of the sudden you have taken this thing and turned the volume knob up to 11 and you've turned the heat up even more on the Chicago Blackhawks.
Jeff Marek [00:07:00] What is the Gretzky effect here and is there a Gretzky effect?
Elliotte Friedman [00:07:05] Well of course there is for the exact reason you said, that Gretzky doesn't weigh in on these things and, you know, he made a good point about, what's the parent of an 18 year-old who's being drafted or going to Chicago thinking about that. I think it's a very, very fair point. Couple of things from what you said there. First of all, I don't think that Rocky Wirtz sees himself as victimised. What I think is that Rocky Wirtz had decided they were closing the door on this and they were never gonna talk about it again, and that he's never been challenged. Like, you talked about the relationship between Rocky and Danny. You know, Danny Witrz is the CEO there. Jaime Faulkner is a major voice in the Blackhawks. Some of the things that she's been doing behind the scenes she's very proud of and trying to modernise the organisation a lot of different ways. He completely neutered them. On that stage he completely neutered them. It's very, very difficult to recover from that in the business world. Very very difficult. And Rocky Wirtz is someone, he doesn't get told no.
Jeff Marek [00:08:13] Hmm.
Elliotte Friedman [00:08:13] There aren't very many people who tell Rocky Wirtz no. So when he says, I'm not talking about it anymore or we're not talking about it anymore, he expects everybody to follow the rules as he lays them down. That's what the issue was for him. I don't think it's because he feels victimised because he said, we're not talking about it anymore. The Chicago Blackhawks are his team, the team he owns. Danny Wirtz, Jaime Faulkner, you're not talking about it anymore. No that's it. So when Danny tries to answer it and Rocky takes it, and then Danny tries to interject and then Rocky cuts him off, that's the dynamic we're seeing here. And the thing is too is that, you see that and you say, what are the consequences? Well, all of a sudden, like, this is an owner who's on the executive committee. This is an owner whose family has been a major powerbroker through his father and grandfather in the National Hockey League, for 90 years. This is a problem for the commissioner, the deputy commissioner, and not of their own making. And now they always meet with the media on All-Star Weekend, they're gonna do it Friday afternoon, and this is a problem he suddenly has to deal with that A, there's never a good time for it, but it's a horrible time because it's right at his All-Star Game. And B, now he has to deal with this. Okay, I know there's a lot of families who listen to this or some anyway. I'm gonna count to five and then turn it down for five seconds. Five, four, three, two, one. Jeff, what we've gotta do is stop having what the fuck moments. And what I mean by that is, things that are problems that we create ourselves, right? Like sometimes you just look at a friend of yours or someone you really care about and you're like. WTF, why did you just do that, you didn't need to do that? And that's what I think about here and so, I'm thinking what I would do if I was in the commissioner's shoes and what you need to do is say, we're stopping this, now. And I know it's hard because the Wirtzes are really powerful, but there's gotta be something, whether it's whether he steps down or whether he's suspended from the day-to-day operations, or at the very least, he's off the executive committee because he's one of the 10 most powerful owners. And you've gotta say, hey everyone, we're putting an end to this. This one didn't need to happen, and everything we do is under a microscope, and people are looking for problems to rip us. We're taking the out. We're saying to ourselves, we're not giving anyone else any ammunition, any fire. And that's what I'd be looking at if I was the commissioner. You know, there was something that happened in that press conference. One of the things that Jaime Faulkner announced was before this all happened is, they said our season ticket holders are telling us they don't want to buy preseason games. Now that's one of the ways that season ticket holders and a lot of markets get gouged.
Jeff Marek [00:11:14] Yeah.
Elliotte Friedman [00:11:14] You have to buy the preseason. But she comes out and she says, we're not gonna force you to buy preseason games anymore. Like to me, when you're trying to rebuild something with your fans, that's a home run. As a matter of fact, someone texted me later and say it's the number one complaint teams get about their season tickets. Why do we have to buy preseason games? So that's a little gesture that your fans are gonna appreciate, and all of a sudden that's blown to smithereens. It is absolutely blown to smithereens. We gotta stop doing that.
Jeff Marek [00:11:46] Really quickly just so our listeners can understand that may not understand that dynamic. Players aren't paid in the preseason. That's why that is so significant for NHL teams. That is all direct revenue. Their checks don't start until the season began, to the point about gouging or cash grab, to Elliotte point, that's normally what people point to and say, you know what? There's an issue, and I'm with you, that's a significant one. Because it's interesting because what we're talking about here is, you know, building this sort of bridge of trust once again between the organisation and its fanbase. And I think eventually Mark Lazerus will have his question answered. You know, Danny Wirtz tried to answer it. I believe both Danny Wirtz and Jaime Faulkner both approached Mark Lazerus and Phillip Thompson from the Tribune to say, you know, we will be discussing this. You know, approached them privately and almost quietly about it. But, my question is, how can that announcement have any credibility after we've seen what Rocky Wirtz has done? Like once you've had that type of performance and that vitriol, you know, reaffirming a lot of stereotypes about how people feel about those that are in charge of certain NHL teams, specifically the Chicago Blackhawks, throughout this entire Kyle Beach saga. How can any announcement have any credibility? I look at this as if this is now a crisis of credibility, no matter what Danny Wirtz and Jaime Faulkner and the entire organisation put out there. Because we've already seen this from Rocky. We've already seen this from Rocky.
Elliotte Friedman [00:13:22] This is the whole thing like, Jeff, like this was their press conference, as I said earlier, to set up their recovery, to explain their recovery. So what are you gonna do, have another press conference to explain how you're gonna recover from that press conference? Sometimes in the media, we sometimes forget how the business world works. And so I called a friend of mine who's in business and I said, you know, what did you think watching that? And he said that, if that happened in a meeting, it would be very difficult for the other people in that meeting who were silenced by him to recover. And that's the challenge here now for the Blackhawks is, like, I think Rocky Wirtz wanted Danny Wirtz and Jaime Faulkner to be the faces of his team. They're both heavily involved in the organisation, you know, now he's damaged that. You know, one of the things that I was talking about with people today is, are they now gonna look at this and say, we have to go outside of the organisation and get someone else now? Are they gonna have no choice but to say, we need a new person?
Jeff Marek [00:14:38] I can't give you an answer.
Elliotte Friedman [00:14:39] I don't either. It's too quick. It's too quick.
Jeff Marek [00:14:39] I don't wanna be glib and flippant it's like, the nerves are right there on the skin I can't, I don't know, I don't know what they do. All I know is going to the office on Thursday morning must have been awful, logging in on Thursday morning as you're someone working for the Chicago Blackhawks after that demonstration on Wednesday. I think there are a lot of people in that organisation that probably have a lot of misgivings about being there right now. Jobs are hard to come by I get it, and I'm talking from the back seat. But you're right like, that's tough for those people to recover and I'm just thinking about everybody else in the organisation watching that too.
Elliotte Friedman [00:15:16] Mhm.
Jeff Marek [00:15:17] Who's saying to themselves, do I really wanna be part of this? Do I really want to be part of this organisation after that? And I'm not saying that there should be a mass resignation, no no, jobs are hard man, like it's--
Elliotte Friedman [00:15:31] People have to do what they think is right for them and their families.
Jeff Marek [00:15:34] They have to do what's right for them and their families. But you know what it does though Elliotte? It chips away at any type of loyalty you have to your company.
Elliotte Friedman [00:15:42] It kills your morale.
Jeff Marek [00:15:43] When you go through something like that all of a sudden someone that loved their job? Just goes to a job now. This is my job. Where once you might have been proud to tell people where you work, maybe now you just say I work in hockey.
Elliotte Friedman [00:15:59] You know for me, like I say this all the time. I love hockey. It's taught me so many great things. It really has made me a better person. You know, I've been in sports now since, as a professional since out of school since 1993. I've been basically hockey-exclusive since 2003. I have learnt so much and it's made me so much of a better person and, I think it's a better place than it shows sometimes? But like I said earlier about, we gotta stopped shooting ourselves, like, these are the things that we just have to stop, like in tennis, they keep the stat: unforced error. This is an unforced error. This did not have to happen, and it hurts the sport.
Jeff Marek [00:16:44] One of the things, and you and I sort of discussed this on the radio show on Thursday too, this idea that, there's the old saying, you know, you become your parents eventually?
Elliotte Friedman [00:16:55] Mhm.
Jeff Marek [00:16:55] So once upon a time, you know, this wasn't Rocky Wirtz. Rocky Wirtz was the smiling new face of the Wirtz family, where there had been a disconnect between the hockey market in Chicago and the owner of the Chicago Blackhawks, Rocky's father, Bill. Rocky came in and it was, the games are on television, this is new direction for the Chicago Blackhawks, the old 'here come the Hawks' theme song was blaring all over the city. John McDonough came in, Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane and, here come the Stanley Cups. And, again I'm not that close to it because I don't live there and I'm not dealing with the Blackhawks every day. But is there not an element of Rocky becoming Bill publicly on that stage on Wednesday night?
Elliotte Friedman [00:17:45] Well that's what someone said to me someone who's a little older, like I didn't cover the NHL. Well, certainly not when Arthur was around, because that was 1930. But I wasn't around when Bill was around, but they said, you know, he ran the NHL basically. He was never, what did they call it back then? The president? John Ziegler?
Jeff Marek [00:18:02] John Ziegler was a president. Gary was the first Commissioner.
Elliotte Friedman [00:18:04] They never called in the commissioner but Bill Wirtz was the powerbroker and people said that's what it was like with him. If you disagreed with him, he shouted you down, and he always had the votes. Now, I wanted to, you know, turn the conversation a little bit on the GMs search. And I was talking to some people about this today, about what that's going to mean.
Jeff Marek [00:18:30] Do you think though any potential candidates might have misgivings about being part of the organisation though?
Elliotte Friedman [00:18:36] I wouldn't say the GM search is tainted or anything like that Jeff, but Kyle Davidson interviewed this week, I think it was on Tuesday, and they're gonna begin opening it up to external interviews. And one of the things I'm hearing is that, there's a question now of, does this mean that they need to bring in a more experienced person, like if you're only thinking of hiring a GM, let's just say, for example, that Kyle Davidson's your choice and he's your GM. Now the question becomes, do you need someone above him to manage up. To simply say that, after what happened on Wednesday night, you simply need a more experienced hand somewhere in your organisation? Now, Ed Olczyk was on the stage that night. I have a feeling that his name again, and he's on the advisory committee. He was added there with Marian Hossa and Patrick Sharp, and someone called me and said, they wouldn't be surprised if his name is brought up again. I don't know if it's gonna be the GM or another role there simply to manage up. And one of the names that came out and Darren Dreger reported it was Peter Chiarelli. Now I know that people have a visceral reaction to Chiarelli because of, you know, the way it finished in Edmonton. But here's why I think that that kind of name is going to get traction here. Number one, the league likes Peter Chiarelli. He's been around, he's a lawyer in addition to a guy who played hockey he's a lawyer. He's been an executive a long time. Whether you agree or don't agree with his hockey moves, he's, he's a stable person. You know, I could see the NHL saying, after what happened on Wednesday night, you need someone who's older, has some experience. Yes, you've gotta make sure you have a good hockey staff around him, and he's learnt the lessons from example, what happened with him in Edmonton, but I do think, Jeff, you're going to see a push here to say, we need experience.
Jeff Marek [00:20:45] Yeah.
Elliotte Friedman [00:20:45] Because of the way this happened and the way that things unfolded there, you're going to need somebody who's been around. You know, I do think that Chicago wants to interview some new fresh, younger people, and I think that that's a good thing in general. But I think the pressure is gonna be on for people who've been around a while because of the way this unfolded, because you can't afford any more mistakes. And Olczyk has been around a long time, Chiarelli's been around a long time. You can think of other people who've been around a long time. And if Danny Wirtz feels so strongly about Kyle Davidson, hire him and give him a position of authority and allow him to continue to grow and learn. Like, to me, that's a no-brainer. And I do think the Blackhawks are in cost-cutting mode here, like a lot of teams are, which is part of this. But after what happened the other night, I think there's gonna be a big push for experienced people in and around there because you can't afford any more mistakes from a PR point of view. It's gonna be interesting to me to see if this does change the course because I think Chicago had their names and I think some of them, like Davidson, were younger and fresher and newer. And I think the push is gonna be on to say, hang on a sec. You guys have proven that you might not be able to handle that. So we'll see where it goes.
Jeff Marek [00:22:33] So Elliotte Thursday it was made official by the Anaheim Ducks, Pat Verbeek is the new general manager and as you reported, mystery candidate number two was Jason Botterill of the Seattle Kraken. Verbeek didn't surprise you correct?
Elliotte Friedman [00:22:46] No, I heard it was trending that direction on the weekend. I think when we did the 32 Thoughts Hockey Night version, I was told it was trending in that way and it seemed to be the most likely outcome. And, you know, I'll say this. One of the things that kind of happens Jeff is that, it's like our grandparents, right? When I was young, I used to walk 50 miles uphill both ways to school!
Jeff Marek [00:23:15] Yeah we didn't have alarm clocks, we put candles in our noses and let them on fire when we went to bed and when they burned to our nose, we knew it was time to wake up.
Elliotte Friedman [00:23:22] It's time to wake up! There's a bit of that in scouting too. Sometimes some of the older scouts are like, these young guys, they don't work that hard. Nobody's ever questioned Pat Verbeek about that.
Jeff Marek [00:23:33] Holy smokes, is that ever true? He is at every rink.
Elliotte Friedman [00:23:37] He is a hard, hard worker. I have to say my only complaint about his media conference is the Zoom shot made his head look gigantic but, you know, that's a small criticism. I'm not the best-looking guy on Zoom, either.
Jeff Marek [00:23:52] It's not his fault.
Elliotte Friedman [00:23:54] I'm not the best-looking Zoom guy either. But he's a worker and he's smart. You know, the interesting thing about this is, I have a debate with others sometimes like if you look at the Bill Belichick coaching tree in football, it's not that successful.
Jeff Marek [00:24:10] Mhm.
Elliotte Friedman [00:24:10] It's not that successful. Like even Mike Forde talked about that with us is that, you go out and you get the person from the most successful tree and you hope it works, but it doesn't always work?
Jeff Marek [00:24:21] Who won the Stanley Cup a couple of years ago? Get that guy.
Elliotte Friedman [00:24:24] Exactly. Well we've seen it happen in the NFL all the time. But people said like, they think Verbeek's a smart bet. They think it's a smart bet, and now the interesting thing is gonna be what happens around him. Like, I look at their staff, they just brought in Jeff Solomon. Martin Madden a couple of years ago, Seattle wanted to steal him and give him a promotion, but they said, no, we're keeping them and we're giving them a promotion ourself. Dave Nonis is a guy the organisation really likes, and someone else mentioned to me, Todd Marchant too like, that's a guy with a long history with the Ducks that they really like. And I know in the interviews, some of the candidates were asked about keeping current people. So it's gonna be interesting what or who Verbeek wants to bring with him, because look, like Anaheim really likes a lot of its staff, so it's gonna be interesting to see what the mix is.
Jeff Marek [00:25:18] That is one of the questions, who stays of the Dave Nonis, Martin Madden, as you mentioned, Jeff Solomon and if they stay, what does the department then look like? Like with someone like Jeff Solomon, for example, like I've been told he's a big analytics guy, and under Bob Murray, we all knew that that was an area of neglect.
Elliotte Friedman [00:25:38] Well he was basically brought in to modernize the organisation. The Kings had a very modern organisation, and he was brought in to bring that to them.
Jeff Marek [00:25:48] So I wonder now with Verbeek in, if Solomon stays if they have a more robust department in that department. Listen we all know about, you know, Dave Nonis's history and experience. We all know about you know, Madden and how he's been able to place players. I am curious who stays through all of this, but the one thing you mentioned, the Belichick tree. Is there anything to this idea that he comes from the GM factory that produced, you know, Holland and Nill and Yzerman and now Verbeek, the Detroit Red Wings?
Elliotte Friedman [00:26:21] Yeah, but I think this is more an Yzerman tree than a Holland tree. And that's not a shot at Ken Holland, I think Yzerman is just his own unique person. There just aren't many like him. Verbeek had a couple of really interesting answers in this media conference when he talked about how young players train.
Elliotte Friedman [00:27:09] You can answer anything in these questions, right? And that was what he went to, and I thought that was a really interesting answer. But the other thing is, when he talked about Yzerman, what did Yzerman teach him: patience and due diligence. Like I think Yzerman is his own unique person, there's--he's no one's tree. He's the tree, he's the redwood, right? He follows his own path and he does things his way, but he does things extremely well. He's successful in everything he does. It's quite frankly disgusting, really. And I think Verbeek has seen that. And like I said, like the thing about Yzerman and Verbeek is, Yzerman's in the Hall of Fame, he's one of the most successful players ever in the history of the game. Verbeek is not in the Hall of Fame, but he's around there, he played 1500 games, and he was a hell of a player.
Jeff Marek [00:28:02] If you simply go by the numbers for Pat Verbeek, these are Hall of Fame numbers.
Elliotte Friedman [00:28:07] Yeah, okay.
Jeff Marek [00:28:08] 1424 games, over 500 goals, over a thousand points, did win a Stanley Cup, and almost 3000 penalty minutes as well. Something happened every time he was on the ice. If you just go by the numbers.
Elliotte Friedman [00:28:20] But my point is, before I was so rudely interrupted.
Jeff Marek [00:28:23] With facts, yes, I know, information gets you riled up.
Elliotte Friedman [00:28:25] Yeah, it does, I just like narrative. They had every excuse to mail it in for the rest of their lives, and they didn't. They poured themselves into this. So I see it as the Yzerman tree and, we talked about this last podcast, he pushed for this. He might say, I'm not asking him if he did, I just know he did. I know he really thought that Verbeek earned the opportunity.
Jeff Marek [00:28:49] Now one of the questions becomes, how does he see this franchise? And maybe this is more of, you know, what was in the nature of the conversation between the Samuelis and Pat Verbeek? Was it more of, Verbeek needing to blend in to the vision that already exists in Anaheim and the Samuelis, or is it Pat Verbeek coming to this interview process and saying, this is what I think this team needs to do. I don't know the answer to that, but I do wonder, if you're Pat Verbeek, at what place do you think the Anaheim Ducks are at right now in the rebuild and whose timeline are you following?
Elliotte Friedman [00:29:29] He answered those questions, you were still on the air, I listened to his media conference.
Jeff Marek [00:29:32] Yeah.
Elliotte Friedman [00:29:33] And he said that one of the best things about going to the Ducks was they're not at the bottom, they're coming up out of it.
Jeff Marek [00:29:38] Yeah.
Elliotte Friedman [00:29:39] Like, some people win jobs because they say what people want to hear? I think that's so lame and disgusting. I would hope as a person I would have a better B.S. detector than that. I think the best people go into job interviews and they're honest and they say, this is why I think you've got and this is what I think we need to do and we can align. But Verbeek said that he thinks that Anaheim is on its way up and doesn't need to tear down, and I could see them as a team saying, we like that. One guy who gets no talk in the rookie conversation is Jamie Drysdale.
Jeff Marek [00:30:14] Absolutely, for sure.
Elliotte Friedman [00:30:16] That's a great piece for them in addition to everything else they've got. Now, Verbeek doesn't have a lot of time. He said he's moving to Anaheim on Saturday. He doesn't have a lot of time here. He's got some big decisions to make right away that will chart the future of the franchise? But it's clear to me he thinks they're headed in the right direction.
Jeff Marek [00:30:38] The big decision starts with whom?
Elliotte Friedman [00:30:40] 47.
Jeff Marek [00:30:41] Does it start with Hampus Lindholm or does it start with making moves with... listen, we've talked about Rickard Rakell and--
Elliotte Friedman [00:30:49] Lindholm's your big decision. You know, you have to decide where you're going here and Pat Verbeek and Claude Lemieux, that will be some negotiation. They might have to send stitches for that one.
Jeff Marek [00:31:02] That'll be a fight. Well, I'm always curious about when someone talks about rebuild and to your point about Pat Verbeek, this is a team, isn't a team at the bottom of the rebuild, this is a team that's on their way up. I'm always curious about whose timeline are they following like, which players are in that timeline? Like, there are some obvious ones. Trevor Zegras, you're following his timeline in this rebuild, you mentioned Jamie Drysdale as well, I'll throw in Mason McTavish just because I think that they look at him as you know, at worst, their second line centre of the future, but probably their first line centre of the future be--between him and Trevor Zegras. Like I'm curious, you know who fits the timeline and if they can't redo Hampus Lindholm like, let's just say Hampus Lindholm, decides I want to try something else like Hampus Lindholm is a different kind of guy. Like Hampus Lindholm is, as much as he's a great teammate and a super hockey player, you know, he's someone that's into having, you know, different life experiences as well like if he says, I want to go try living or playing in another market, what happens to other players around him that aren't on the Trevor Zegras, Mason McTavish, Jamie Drysdale timeline? And the obvious one that we were all think of is John Gibson. Like if you lose one, do you automatically need to lose two?
Elliotte Friedman [00:32:21] No, I don't necessarily believe that. I think that you have to look at each decision in a vacuum. I'd be doing what I could to sign a guy like Lindholm.
Jeff Marek [00:32:29] 100%.
Elliotte Friedman [00:32:30] You know, I've told you this, I heard, like he's 28. He just turned 28. What are the top defence getting, they're getting 8x9, right? So I'm sure Claude Lemieux is no dummy. He's pointing to Darnell Nurse, he's pointing to Seth Jones. he's, you know, here we are. And I heard the Ducks were willing to do a bit more on a shorter term, but I don't know where that is. But the thing is, if you lose him, can you replace him? The advantage that Verbeek has is that he's got a lot of people in there who know Lindholm really well. But the thing is like if you lose Lindholm, do you think you can replace him with something else? If you can then go out and do it? But I think that's a lot easier said than done.
Jeff Marek [00:33:18] No, there's no new Hampus Lindholm. I think he's been one of the secret weapons in the West and only people that pay attention to the Ducks know about it. Like honestly, I, he's one of those guys that you always say, if he only played in a bigger market, everybody would know the name Hampus Lindholm, he's just that good.
Elliotte Friedman [00:33:36] By the way Jeff, somebody told me that Toronto is on Manson's no-trade list. That doesn't mean it can't happen? That just means you have to, if you really want to do it, you've gotta work at it.
Jeff Marek [00:33:49] Are all the Canadian teams on his no-trade list?
Elliotte Friedman [00:33:52] I don't know, I was just, I was specifically told Toronto because I've been mentioning it right? I think it was someone's way of trying to get me to be quiet.
Jeff Marek [00:34:03] I don't know that's ever worked.
Jeff Marek [00:34:04] Elliotte I wanna ask you about some of the general managers you talked to for 32 Thoughts the blog. David Poile, Rob Blake, and Bill Guerin. We'll start with Nashville, and David Poile is someone that's been around a long time. What's his stat, the winningest GM in NHL history?
Elliotte Friedman [00:34:31] Yup.
Jeff Marek [00:34:32] What did you take away from your conversation with David Poile?
Elliotte Friedman [00:34:36] I think that the number one thing we kind of laughed about was that they lead the league in fighting majors, and he didn't really expect that. But he thinks it's a reason that their team has improved this year. Like look like, he admitted he made decisions last year that were not popular decisions. They weren't popular among the roster, they weren't popular among the fans.
Jeff Marek [00:34:57] Arvidsson.
Elliotte Friedman [00:34:58] Ellis, too.
Jeff Marek [00:34:59] Yeah.
Elliotte Friedman [00:34:59] But he said, we got stale. You know, we were out of our window. We were in our window, we were out of our window, and you know, we have to do better. I don't know if they expected themselves to be where they are this year. I think they're gonna make the playoffs, I think those top four Central Division teams are going to make the playoffs and what a nasty playoffs that's gonna be, Colorado, Minnesota, St. Louis and Nashville.
Jeff Marek [00:35:21] Knife fight, knife fight, knife fight.
Elliotte Friedman [00:35:23] They had to do something, and their best players have been great. Saros has been great. Josi has been great. Forsberg has been great. Duchene has been great. Johansen has been great. Although, you know there are people who said to me 16 and a half minutes a game, when you're making eight million, you can't want that. My point is look, like, you gotta do what you do to make it work. Their best players have been their best players, but they've been rejuvenated by what's happening underneath them. And guys like Jeannot and Alexander Carrier, like those are the kinds of players that have stepped in for them that they weren't expecting. You know, Granlund's been great, that's a guy he says gets no credit. I don't know what they expected, I didn't think they'd be that good, but I think they're better than we all thought.
Jeff Marek [00:36:09] You know who doesn't get enough credit there?
Elliotte Friedman [00:36:11] Who?
Jeff Marek [00:36:11] John Hynes doesn't get enough credit.
Elliotte Friedman [00:36:12] Done a very good job.
Jeff Marek [00:36:14] You know, he, he helped Taylor Hall have his best year ever. Hart trophy. You know, I look at some of the players on this team and you just ran down a list of them like, I don't think it's any surprise that these guys are enjoying career years, whether they're young players like Tanner Jeannot or whether they're more established players some who're looking at, you know, free agency like Filip Forsberg. None of that surprises me. Because what was it that you pointed out the other day, this reminded us of the other day. This is his first full season with the Nashville Predators.
Elliotte Friedman [00:36:47] Yeah.
Jeff Marek [00:36:48] There's no stop and start, there's no pause.
Elliotte Friedman [00:36:50] He was hired in January 2020, two months before the pause.
Jeff Marek [00:36:54] Yeah. I think Hynes has done a great job with the Nashville Predators. It's a fun team and I just love that you see Saros is, you know, smashing all the stereotypes.
Elliotte Friedman [00:37:03] You love Jeannot too.
Jeff Marek [00:37:05] And 14 goals and he's raw bone tough and I just think of my conversation with Tim Hunter when we were in Moose Jaw and he kept saying, don't sleep on this kid.
Elliotte Friedman [00:37:12] One goal as a 17 year-old.
Jeff Marek [00:37:15] Crazy, right? It's interesting too, because you know, one of the things about Tim Hunter, who was his coach and in Moose Jaw, you know, he was one of those guys who kind of wrecked training camp for everybody because he would come in and he'd be torn up like a bad report card. You'd light matches off the guy and everyone else would be like, do we have to show up like Tim? And then the expectation was, yeah, you gotta show up like Tim Hunter now because he always kept himself in great shape and here's comes Tanner Jeannot, who's a rock himself. Bill Guerin. What was the other conversation like with the Minnesota GM?
Elliotte Friedman [00:37:46] Guerin, I liked the way he talked about his team's personality, that they're honest with each other, they say the hard things to each other and that you want to play a skill game we'll play a skill game, you wanna go into the back alley we'll go into the back alley. And I think the interesting thing too is with Guerin is that he's basically said, because of our cap situation, I want to know who I've got where as quickly as I possibly can. And they've signed Foligno and they've signed Greenway and they've signed Hartman. You know the one guy they don't have signed, well, the backup Kahkonen is arbitration eligible, I'm sure they get something done there, if they want to, and the one guy they don't have to sign is Fiala, who's been on a bit of a tear lately.
Jeff Marek [00:38:24] Yes.
Elliotte Friedman [00:38:25] But you know, he likes his team. And the one thing about Guerin is he's, he is not afraid. Like he said similar things is as Poile, doesn't really want to change his team around very much because he likes the personnel mix of it. You know, we should say one thing about Poile. I did ask him about an unsigned Forsberg going into the trade deadline and he's like, I don't wanna box myself in. It's not my preference, but I'll never say never. I should mention that. But the thing about Guerin is, he likes his team a lot. He likes his team a lot and I like the fact he thinks of it differently, Jeff, in the sense that he says, well people say we don't have a number one centre, but we have a star in Kaprizov who doesn't shy away from rough games, who can create chances off the wing. And he mentioned Kucherov as another player who does it. Okay so if you don't have something, how are you going to overcome it? And I like Guerin's creative thinking in the sense that he finds a way to overcome it.
Jeff Marek [00:39:21] They may have one on the horizon. They may have one in Marco Rossi, he's not quite there yet.
Elliotte Friedman [00:39:27] Next year.
Jeff Marek [00:39:27] He's not fulltime NHL-ready, but you know what? That's probably fine. Right? That's probably fine for them and their salary structure. And you know the interesting thing as well.
Elliotte Friedman [00:39:36] Yeah, he'll be on an ELC.
Jeff Marek [00:39:38] You know, that works out fine, thank you very much, no point in jumping him in early. But the point about Kevin Fiala and his production so far and how he's happy, I had Mike Russo on the on the radio show, and he was talking about how much Kevin Fiala has just thrived off the play of Matthew Boldy well, and it's sort of give and take like it's both. But that combination has been fantastic for Minnesota like they've got three really solid lines here, and that second line, you know, you mentioned Foligno and Joel Eriksson Ek is in the middle and Jordan Greenway, like, there's two stealthy sulky candidates there in Foligno and Eriksson Ek. I'm with you Friedge. They're good. I know there's cap hell coming up, but that's a really good team. I was really happy to see Rob Blake talk about Mikey Anderson the way that he did and talk about Mikey Anderson a lot, because one of the things that I don't think many have talked about is the pair of Drew Doughty and Mikey Anderson. You know despite the fact that he's injured right now, Anderson and Doughty have been really good this year for the Los Angeles Kings. What did you take away from the Blake talk?
Elliotte Friedman [00:40:47] I just think that he's gonna go for a left shot D and a scorer. Like he quoted expected goals to me. That's a conversation I didn't think I would have had five years ago. That was one of the first things he said to me actually was the expected goals.
Jeff Marek [00:41:02] Dustin Brown. Have a thought there?
Elliotte Friedman [00:41:04] Conversation during the All-Star break, they'll see. Like I didn't get the impression he's going anywhere. I think he's gonna retire King and his number retired there too. But, you know, Blake says he's happy with them as the third liner on Byfield's wing, help him out. And, you know, we'll see, his contract's up this summer, right?
Jeff Marek [00:41:26] Yes.
Elliotte Friedman [00:41:27] So I think they just want to have a conversation about where he thinks Brown's head is. I don't think they're rushing to trade him or anything like that, but he just said, we're gonna have a conversation about his future.
Jeff Marek [00:41:37] Normally we get to some emails and some phone calls from the thought line. Today we're gonna push that element of the podcast into the next pod because we're getting a little bit heavy but we promise we're gonna get to you. But there is one comment. However, we do want to play.
Jeff Marek [00:42:23] Oh man, did that just make my day, I don't know about you, Friedge, but I love it.
Elliotte Friedman [00:42:27] I think you should make that like your phone message. Even though nobody leaves messages anymore, you should put that in your phone.
Jeff Marek [00:42:33] That was awesome and for those who don't know who that is, that is a grade 4/5 class in Oakville who are doing all the heavy-lifting and tracking the in-season Cup. If you want to follow along on Twitter, @InSeasonCup and yes, I'm in last place. Surprise, surprise. Taking us out, a Toronto-based musician. Jacob Switzer AKA Jay Feelbender, new on the scene as a solo musician, Jay has only dropped a pair of singles, but has been around the music scene the last decade. With his first single here's Jay Feelbender with Cheap Whisky on 32 Thoughts the Podcast.