32 Thoughts: The Podcast

Olympic-Sized Headache

Episode Summary

Jeff and Elliotte discuss some of the main takeaways from the NHL Board of Governors meeting in Florida which included the Olympics, the search for a general manager in Vancouver, what's happening with the Bruins, how the Oilers are looking to improve their roster and they take some of your questions.

Episode Notes

Jeff and Elliotte are back from the NHL Board of Governors meeting in Florida. The guys discuss some of the main takeaways including the Olympics (2:00), the presentation by Kim Davis (14:00), the most recent situation with the Coyotes (16:30), salary cap update (19:45), franchise values and private equity sales (21:45).

They also go around the league touching on the GM search in Vancouver (24:00), the future of the Boston Bruins (29:30), Ben Bishop and the Dallas Stars (35:40), how the Oilers are looking to improve their roster (38:00) and they take some of your questions (40:30).

Full transcript for the episode can be found here by Medha Monjaury

Outro Music: Lionel Boy - Tides

Listen to his self-titled debut record here

This podcast is produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.

Audio Credits: Boston Bruins.

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Episode Transcription

OPEN //// Elliotte Friedman [00:00:01] All right, let's go. 

Caller : [00:00:04] ["Elliotte huge fan here from Edmonton, Alberta, but I'm a Calgary Flames fan of course. I just have to tell you, man, your hair looks so bad. Sort of like, you look like a seventh grader from the early 2000s that like, just discovered Garnier. It was brutal. You're a hottie. Do better. That's all."]

Elliotte Friedman [00:00:31] How do you know that's not the look I was going for? 

Jeff Marek [00:00:34] What a way to open up the podcast. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:00:36] Thanks, Steph. 

Jeff Marek [00:00:37] That was quite the call. Yeah, was that your wife? Disguising yourself as someone from Alberta? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:00:41] And she's mad about my line, about the Commissioner being more faithful to Arizona than she is to me. 

Jeff Marek [00:00:46] Yeah, that got some play. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:00:48] And she heard it. She told me never to say that again. 

Jeff Marek [00:00:52] So that one's off the repertoire. You're gonna have to come up with a new line about Arizona and the NHL Commissioner. Welcome to 32 Thoughts the Podcast presented by the all-new GMC AT4 lineup. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:01:01] First of all, thank you for the message. I really do appreciate it. Thank you for confirming what I already know, and the world already knows, that I am a hottie. But you know, I do like messy hair. 

Jeff Marek [00:01:14] Let me ask you a question. If you didn't have the obligation of television, what would you look like? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:01:22] A disaster. 

Jeff Marek [00:01:23] No, but how? Like, how much, like, how disastrous would it be? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:01:27] I'd have the beard back. 

Jeff Marek [00:01:28] I know the beard would be back for you. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:01:30] And I'd have a shaved head. 

Jeff Marek [00:01:31] Oh, you'd have that look? See, I thought you were going to go with the super long hair, I thought you were gonna go for that guy. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:01:35] Think Jeff Bridges Iron Man one. 

Jeff Marek [00:01:37] See I would have thought you would have gone like Captain Caveman. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:01:40] No, I'd like to shave my head, but... Certain people are against that. 

Jeff Marek [00:01:45] Yeah, you know, I always threatened [unclear] our stylist that one day I'm gonna take it down to the bone and she freaks out and like, that'll never happen. But I am that guy too, I would take it down to the bone. Okay! Busy weekend, lots of news and a lot of it coming off the Board of Governors in Florida. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:01:58] We gotta do the Olympics first, we gotta do— 

Jeff Marek [00:02:00] Yeah, let's begin with the Olympics, because that is the—the big, well we talked a lot about it on Saturday night as well, and now we understand what the protocols are. When I think the whopper for players when they first found this news out was the the quarantine, anywhere between three to five weeks. And ultimately, it's the Chinese health authorities that have final say. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:02:21] And you're not getting out of there until they clear you. 

Jeff Marek [00:02:25] Correct. You know, one manager that I spoke to on Saturday morning just in preparation for the show Saturday night, said this has gone from being player-driven to player-doubted. Do you agree with that? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:02:38] Yes. I'm told that at the Board of Governors, the commissioner told the teams, regardless of what you think, you should be prepared to go to the Olympics or that your players are going to the Olympics. He said there's only two ways we're not going. Number one, we have to cancel so many games that it's obvious we can't go, or number two, the players decide they don't like it. And so, I don't know what day that was Thursday or Friday that the Commissioner told the teams that, but he told the teams that. And then late Friday night, the Players Association received the updated protocols that we reported on Jeff, you did on Saturday. And in the words of one agent, to me, it was as bad as we could have hoped for. So for those of you who didn't see it on the 32 Thoughts headlines portion of Saturday's show, it's three to five weeks potential quarantine if you test positive. You cannot be released without permission of the local authorities. And also, if you have a positive test and you're symptomatic, you cannot be discharged until all symptoms are gone and you've had at least two negative tests 24 hours apart. If you have a positive test and you're asymptomatic, it's at least two negative tests 24 hours apart. And you know, one thing we didn't mention on Saturday that someone said to me we should have mentioned is that all of this is upon the review of Chinese authorities. So whatever we've got here on paper and the players are being informed about on paper could change, and there's really not a lot that you can do about it. So like I said, I had an agent say to me, this is the, the worst possible news we could have received, and now it's gonna be in the hands of the players. Now, there's some conference calls or Zoom calls, there's some scheduled for Monday, I would assume after Amil gets this podcast out, but you never know with him. And there's another one scheduled for Wednesday. So that's where the players are gonna start or gonna be able to ask questions, listen to the experts, and I think over the next couple of weeks, they're gonna really have to make their decision. Now one other thing I was told Jeff, is that a couple of the national teams that are going to the Olympics, they had hoped to be down to maybe less than 30 players by now, maybe 30 would be the max, and they're a little higher because they're worried that certain players have indicated that if the quarantines are really bad and this would qualify. 

Jeff Marek [00:05:23] Yeah. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:05:24] They're probably not going. And we know about Lehner. There are more other players who've kind of let it be known that they're not crazy with what they were hearing before this. 

Jeff Marek [00:05:35] So a couple of things here. One, we know that there will be protocols in place on the ground in Beijing that can significantly restrict someone's ability to play. We also know that players are being warned and for NHL players, this would be, you know, that weekend in Vegas for All-Star to be cautious leading up to leaving for Beijing. Now, you know if you talk to the Players Association, you know, they'll tell you that, you know, this is a bubble environment, let's remember that, we've done it before, whether it's Edmonton, whether it's Toronto, it has happened before. There is, however, and all the players are being told there's a chance that you still may test positive and this quarantine could very much be part of your reality. So it sounds to me Elliotte like for the remainder of December, the Players Association will go into information-gathering mode and share that with the players, and then it'll be up to them, and as you pointed out Saturday, probably right to the final hour, but it'll be up to them to make their decision on whether they want to go or not. I can see if there are... And you mentioned Robin Lehner, if there are like five other players that decide to take a pass, they're still going. But we're probably looking at about 150 guys, Elliotte? And if, let's say 50 of them say they don't wanna go. I think we have a problem. Because I don't think the NHLPA has like a specific number, like, okay, if there's 65 guys that say, no, we're not going. But I think you can start to get into that 40 player, maybe 50 player territory, then I think it really becomes an issue. Agree or disagree? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:07:21] I agree but there's a lot of other questions here. Okay, so let's pick some Olympic teams here. Let's just say, for argument's sake, Russia and the United States, 95% of the players vote to go, and Canada and Sweden, 25% of the players vote to go. What do you do in that situation? 

Jeff Marek [00:07:42] I don't know! 

Elliotte Friedman [00:07:43] Now we also know there's a long list here. Some of these teams have a hundred more players on the list. You know, the Channel One Cup begins this week in Moscow. That's the one that Claude Julien is coaching for Canada, and there's gonna be a bunch of players there and—who could be Olympians, depending on what the NHLers decide to do. And there's also the Spangler Cup, which is gonna be the same thing. So you know what happens in that situation Jeff? 

Jeff Marek [00:08:10] I don't know. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:08:11] Like what if—what if, say, for argument's sake, all the Russian players say, I wanna go, what are we gonna do here? 

Jeff Marek [00:08:18] Don't know. That, and that's why I say I think they're all in information-gathering mode right now, and I think all these different scenarios are gonna be presented much like the one that that I brought up on Saturday, which is, you know, what happens if the players decide to go, someone tests negative before they leave and then positive when they get there, considering they may have had COVID 90 days before? What's the protocol at that point? I think all these scenarios are being weighed out right now. I don't think—I don't think we have answers for any of this stuff!

Elliotte Friedman [00:08:50] Right. And the other thing they were warned about Jeff was, if a close contact of yours tests positive, you may not be able to go. 

Jeff Marek [00:09:00] You know, I'm sure people have asked you as well, they've asked me too: are the players going, and my answer? My honest answer lately Friedge is, it depends what time of day you ask me. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:09:10] Yeah. 

Jeff Marek [00:09:10] Because my opinion keeps on changing. I'm not a cautiously optimistic as much as I'm cautiously pessimistic by nature. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:09:19] I'm more optimistic than Jeff, I would like to say. 

Jeff Marek [00:09:22] I know I'm cautiously pessimistic. I really don't know on this one. I don't—I don't have a gut either way and, whatever feeling I do have changes, you know, as the minutes tick by 

Elliotte Friedman [00:09:33] While on the headlines segment or the 32 Thoughts segment on Saturday, Ron asked to put a percentage on it, that was like a trap. That was a Ron McLean trap. I was like, Ron, there's no way I'm guessing a percentage on this. You know, someone said to me, what if your country doesn't have a great diplomatic relationship with China versus a country that does have a better diplomatic relationship with China? How is that gonna make everybody feel? We know the U.S. announced a diplomatic boycott. Canada—. 

Jeff Marek [00:10:05] Canada as well. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:10:06] [Announced a] diplomatic boycott. They sent one diplomat to the last Olympics I mean, talk about hollow gestures but, an agent said to me, are players that have—from countries that have—that either don't call diplomatic boycotts or who have better relationships than right now than Canada and the U.S. do, are those players going to be more comfortable with going? 

Jeff Marek [00:10:28] Thinking that their government could bail them out of tricky situations, or be allowed to? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:10:32] I don't know what the answer to that is, but the point was made to me. 

Jeff Marek [00:10:36] Yeah. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:10:36] I said, you know, like, I don't know, I think you'd have to ask each individual player. I think they'll wait as long as they can but, like I said, an agent said to me it was—and this is a pretty prominent agent with a lot of clients going, he said it was really bad news. It was close to the worst possible news that players could get. And here's the other thing that we mentioned on Saturday night in case you didn't see it: the NHL's position is, and they do have an agreement with this, that if a player has a COVID-related illness and can't play in the NHL, they don't get paid. 

Jeff Marek [00:11:12] Yup. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:11:12] And, the IIHF, the International Ice Hockey Federation, agreed to a $5 million fund to cover that. Here's the question: what if that fund runs out? And again, I think there are players and agents who are mad about this, that there even is a discrepancy? You know, one pointed out to me, it was a player actually, said that when John Tavares was injured in Sochi, even though the Islanders were mad, he was paid. And, you know, he's not happy that, you know, there's a chance that he could not be paid if he comes down with COVID at the Olympics. So, this is another issue that will have to be sorted out here because the league is adamant that there's an agreement that says that they don't have to pay people under those circumstances and, as we know with Tyler Bertuzzi, that is the case during the NHL regular season. 

Jeff Marek [00:12:06] You know, one agent that I spoke with Saturday morning, we were talking about one of his players who's a shoo-in to go. And we were talking about what the quarantine would be like. And he said, listen, if my guy goes and tests positive and has to quarantine between three to five weeks, you know, he'll be watching his team play while he's in China, maybe go on a losing streak because he's not there and it will make him nuts. It will drive him crazy. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:12:42] If I was a player, I would feel that way. 

Jeff Marek [00:12:44] And I'm thinking to myself like, that was the first time that someone put it so bluntly to me and I thought, I bet they're all thinking like that. What if I'm stuck there and I can't do anything to help my team and they start losing? I will go crazy. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:12:57] I believe that there is at least one General Manager who's made it clear, and this is a General Manager who I think is supportive of the Olympics. He recognizes their importance and he recognizes how much it matters to the players. And he wouldn't comment when I asked him about it but I believe it's true that he has made it very clear that he thinks it's selfish for players to go under these conditions. And I know he is supportive of the games in general. 

Jeff Marek [00:13:26] One other thing we should mention Elliotte, and this was part of the day two press conference with Gary Bettman and Bill Daly, if the players do not end up going to the Olympics, don't expect any games other than probably some COVID make-up games during that Olympic break, correct? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:13:42] Yeah, it sounds like we could all get some time off, no question about it. 

Jeff Marek [00:13:45] Yeah. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:13:45] Doesn't sound like they'll be making up a lot. These teams, they want to stuff their buildings full of dates, concerts, whatever they have to. Why not? I can't blame them. 

Jeff Marek [00:13:55] Okay, so the Olympic conversation dominated much of the talk at the Board of Governors. I think every conversation, at least every conversation, had a portion of it, which was, do you think the players will go or the players won't go, now that we've parked that conversation Elliotte. 

Jeff Marek [00:14:09] Yeah. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:14:09] What else did you take away from this go-around at the Board of Governors? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:14:12] This is the first Board of Governors meeting really in two years, and there hasn't been a General Managers meeting face-to-face, it's all been on Zoom. And the one thing I really noticed was how happy people were to see each other in a group? I really noticed that it was, it was very meaningful to people, and it was nice to see a lot of the other reporters too. That really stood out to me. On the first day we had the Kim Davis presentation. I like her presence. I think she has a real presence. Whatever it is, she's got it. She met with the Board of Governors for about an hour. 

Jeff Marek [00:14:45] Mhm. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:14:45] And the one thing I was really happy to see and, I probably speak for you too on this one, is that they righted the wrong of the initial media conference and realized it was very important to include Sheldon Kennedy. 

Jeff Marek [00:14:59] Yes. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:14:59] And you could tell from his tweet that Sheldon was, you know, very happy to be included. And he thinks he can make a difference. You know, it should have happened a long time ago, but I'm glad that he feels good about it, because that's what matters the most. And I hope he's allowed to be in a position where he can make a difference. 

Jeff Marek [00:15:20] Yeah, I thought Kim Davis was outstanding and listen, we had her on the podcast when she was first hired, we've heard her speak publicly a number of different times, most recently at the Board of Governors, and she continues to impress. And like I said on our hit on—on Thursday night, Elliotte, the NHL is lucky to have Kim Davis. I really thought the point about the NHL, and she said, look, every part of the NHL is a workplace. And that's something that everybody needs to keep in mind. I thought that was specifically poignant. A lot of things are ambitious. We know things have already worked, whether it's the hotline, but also sharing resources with, you know, what she referred to as the hockey ecosystem and not just being, you know, not having horse blinders on and just focusing on their own league, but also including the American League, ECHL, PWHPA, PHF, the three Canadian junior leagues, College Hockey Inc, etc. so everyone can share resources, not just theirs, but from a third party as well. I mean, we know that Kim Davis is a big thinker and these are big plans and this is... I think this is a pivotal moment and an important moment in the history of the NHL. You know, one of the things that... that fell into everyone's lap, which wasn't part of the agenda, which, however, dominated some of the conversation at the BoG was the Arizona Coyotes situation, which the NHL ultimately had to address with the media. What did you take away from it? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:16:47] Well, obviously Katie Strang's story was a blockbuster on the eve of the Board of Governors, that the team owed money to the city and the state. And when Amber and I did our preview of the Board of Governors before the meeting actually began, one of the things we talked about was that, I think the Coyotes were going to be asked to pay the rest of this year in addition to everything they owed, but also the rest of this season. You know, because the governments wanted to make sure that they just wouldn't run away at the end of the year without paying. And, you know at this point in time, they said they've made good on everything they owed. We'll see where the rest of this goes. But I know some people were upset about what the Commissioner said that he kind of pooh-poohed it and said, there's no problem here. You know, I don't know why anybody would be surprised at that. Now, I could understand that people from Arizona that the Coyotes owed money to wouldn't like his attitude. I get that. But, you know, the fact is that there's been nobody who's fought harder for the Arizona Coyotes than Gary Bettman has. And do you think that in a moment of crisis for them, and this is a time of crisis for them, make no mistake about it. He's going to do anything but double and triple down on his previous position? 

Jeff Marek [00:18:07] Of course. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:18:08] Nobody believes it. All you have to do is look at the situation and say, this is big trouble for the league if they can't sort this out. And I believe 1000% that they are looking at exit plans if they have to, because no Commissioner worth anything wouldn't be doing that. But I don't get mad. I kind of roll my eyes at it a bit, but I don't get mad at it because I know that's who he is. I know who I'm dealing with. I know that this is a person who has fought to the ends of the earth and back for the Arizona Coyotes franchise. And in this time of crisis, he's gonna change that. Not a chance. So I look at it that way. I understand where he's coming from. And I just say, look, no matter what it looks like to the rest of us, he's gonna do it that way. That is what the Commissioner's gonna do. And that's it. And I don't expect anything else until the time comes where he might have to say, we can't do this anymore, and that's gonna be the absolute last thing he admits. 

Jeff Marek [00:19:15] OK, well, while we're on the topic of the Commissioner, both yourself and Pierre LeBrun asked about— 

Elliotte Friedman [00:19:21] Do you think he was more defiant about Arizona or his future? 

Jeff Marek [00:19:26] He really did not want to discuss his future with the NHL other than to say, with a Cheshire cat almost Voltarian smile, I'll be here a long, long time. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:19:38] Yeah. I think that was a message for some people. 

Jeff Marek [00:19:41] It probably was. Economic update as well. Bill Daly, I think it was Bill Daly, mentioning that the league is trending towards a little bit north of $5 billion, which is certainly good news for the league, which means salary cap increase of $1 million to 82.5 Next season. Gary Bettman also mentioning that the escrow debt he expects to be paid in three seasons, so the end of this season and then two more seasons, and then at which point we'll see the salary cap raise... I don't wanna see dramatically, but we'll see a bigger bump. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:20:15] It'll be a bigger bump. And I will tell you that, you know, some people said to me that that's, I don't think the word was aggressive, but it says that he's very bullish about the economic future. And what people told me was he's not wrong to be bullish about the economic future, because they feel that the league will grow. And you know, some of these valuations, like on Pittsburgh, was good for a lot of these teams, but I don't know if everybody felt it would be as quick as three summers from now. 

Jeff Marek [00:20:52] Mhm. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:20:52] So that's what some people said was most interesting to them because they think that is probably faster than they expected. 

Jeff Marek [00:21:00] It's probably faster than some veteran hockey players expected. I mean, we had this conversation when it first happened. This was essentially the older players saying, we're taking our money, thank you very much. It's the younger players that are gonna foot the bill here. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:21:16] Oh yeah. 

Jeff Marek [00:21:17] There's a lot of older players that are saying, really? Paid off and I'm still playing? Hmm. Okay. A couple of teams that'll be happy about this Maple Leafs, they've got Nylander and Matthews, Elias Pettersson for Vancouver, he's up when the cap is poised to rise. Carolina with Sebastian Aho, Winnipeg with Mark Scheifele, the Philadelphia Flyers with Carter Hart, those would be the ones that come to mind right away. You mentioned franchise value there as well. The completion of the sale of the Pittsburgh Penguins to the Fenway Sports Group... I'm not gonna ask for a specific number, I don't even know if you know a specific number. But I would imagine that a lot of teams now, after that sale was completed and approved by the Board of Governors in Florida, that a lot of other teams might have said, hmm! That price tag, that's where we're at now? I wonder what I can get. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:22:11] There's no question that's happening. Now, there was another thing that happened at the Board of Governors that was very interesting. And it didn't get a lot of attention, but it was a change in the way the NHL does business. And they allowed private equity sales. That's something they've never done before. And he mentioned Tampa Bay and Minnesota. 

Jeff Marek [00:22:32] Yeah. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:22:32] And this is something that's allowed in the NBA. It's allowed in MLS. It's allowed in Major League Baseball, and now it's allowed in the NHL. So basically, what that says to me is that there's private equity firms that wanna buy in small parts of NHL teams and now the league's going to let it happen. So that's only going to help current ownership group. 

[00:22:54] [Break.]

[00:22:54] SFX [Can being opened.] 

Elliotte Friedman [00:22:54] You know, before we start this, you know, I am doing this podcast, I'm enjoying a tasty Bobby Margarita. 

Jeff Marek [00:23:15] Oh did you get one? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:23:16] I got four of them delivered to my house today and I'm downing the first one. If I'm any more entertaining than normal, you can thank Bobby Margarita for it. 

Jeff Marek [00:23:25] Are you throwing your blender out the front door now? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:23:28] No, I won't agree to that. I'm a friend of the blenders. 

Jeff Marek [00:23:32] Okay, very good. Yeah, if they make your protein shakes after all, after you get off your Peloton, thank you very much. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:23:37] I gotta eat right. Don't want to be like Mr. Big who—who died after riding the Peloton. 

Jeff Marek [00:23:44] I think we're far enough away from the beginning of the podcast that anyone that grouses about is talking about the Vancouver Canucks will say, okay, well, they gave us something before they got to Vancouver so here it is. Jim Rutherford and his General Manager search. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:23:57] Yeah. 

Jeff Marek [00:23:57] What is the latest Elliotte? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:24:01] Well, he's gonna meet with the media on Monday, and you know, we'll see. I'm sure we'll get some comments about it. I think the biggest question is who—who is he gonna be allowed to talk to during the regular season? 

Jeff Marek [00:24:14] Hmm. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:24:14] And obviously, Jason Botterill's name's gonna be mentioned quite a bit. I mentioned on Saturday night Patrick Allvin, who is in Pittsburgh, and I've heard somebody that Rutherford likes a lot. Allvin was promoted by Rutherford while he was still there, and after he resigned, Allvin was the temporary—the interim GM until Ron Hextall was hired. And I will tell you this, he's got a good rep. People think he's very smart. I think the biggest question is, is he ready for that role yet? But you never know until you're put there, right? But he's definitely got a bright future. People really like him. Now, let me ask you a question. When we were together in Florida, because you are my all things Canadian Hockey League guy, there was a name I asked you to check out for me. What was that name? 

Jeff Marek [00:25:08] That name was Mark Hunter. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:25:09] And what were you told? What did you hear? 

Jeff Marek [00:25:13] I was told, no. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:25:14] Okay, so I just wanna to tell you that I asked you to check that name because someone who I really trust said to me, Hunter could be in the middle of this because they want to build up their scouting. He knows young players. And also the other thing about Mark Hunter is, if they want him, they probably could get him now. But you know, when you said, no, I was kind of like, okay, it's not happening. Well, I had someone else tell me to watch out for Hunter. 

Jeff Marek [00:25:44] So you're saying I have bad sources on this one? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:25:46] No, I'm not saying that you have bad sources, I—hen it comes to Canadian Hockey League, your sources are miles ahead of mine. But, no matter what Mark Hunter is saying, there are other people who believe he could be a contender. So we'll see. 

Jeff Marek [00:26:02] The other name and, you've mentioned this a couple of places that there was, I don't know whether a "falling out" is too strong a term... 

Elliotte Friedman [00:26:09] I believe they've patched it up. 

Jeff Marek [00:26:11] This is Jason Karmanos. Because that's a name is very much out there. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:26:16] Jason Karmanos was very good at saying to Jim Rutherford, are you sure? And we all need somebody like that in our lives. 

Jeff Marek [00:26:26] Yes, we do. Are you under the impression—and listen, you just mentioned Botterill, and he's already been a General Manager. But are you under the impression that Jim Rutherford prefers to have someone who's new to that position who can work sort of under his wing or bring in someone with a little bit of resume already attached? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:26:48] I don't know the answer to that. 

Jeff Marek [00:26:50] What do you make of and, we're recording this podcast before Vancouver plays Carolina, so the record may not be perfect by the time you hear this podcast, but so far, under Bruce Boudreau, things seem a lot more relaxed, productive, and successful so far for the Vancouver Canucks. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:27:05] The one thing that really is clear here is that before they made all the changes, the team was really drowning. It really was. And, I think Boudreau, he just gives you the opportunity to kind of ease back and relax a little bit. And I just think that's what they needed. I think there just are times where you're drowning and you need a change, and that was the time for Vancouver. And, you know, I think that those players and—I gotta tell you, I think Green needed it, too. They just needed a change. It was time, it ran its course, it just wasn't gonna get fixed. And now Boudreau comes in, he can look at things a little bit of a different way because he's new. You're—you're—you're a bit more optimistic, you're a bit cheerier. You know, I think the other thing here that... that really is important to understand is that Boudreau and Rutherford are both experienced people that are getting to do a thing here that they've never done before. And that is coach and manage in Canada. And I think that means something to both of those guys. 

Jeff Marek [00:28:16] Boudreau has talked about that openly. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:28:18] Yes, and I think Rutherford would be too. Like I do believe that Jim Rutherford is a guy who wanted to be a manager in Canada. And I think this really does appeal to him for that reason. Rutherford is a guy who doesn't mind getting in front of the media and talking and shooting the breeze and things like that. He kind of likes it. And, you know, I think that's important for this job. 

Jeff Marek [00:28:47] You know, the coach's nickname is Gabby, after all. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:28:50] Yes. And you know, I think that those guys will be prepared to handle this. To me, that's not an insignificant thing in Vancouver. 

Jeff Marek [00:28:59] How much of a pendulum swing do you see this? Because we've seen this before. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:29:03] Too early to say. 

Jeff Marek [00:29:05] Just by way—by way of personality. And I'm not saying that one is better than the other. For some situations, you want someone who's more serious for someone, you know, for another situation, you need someone that's gonna lighten the mood. But we tend to see a yo-yo effect in the National Hockey League specifically. And are we seeing it now, between the last regime and this one. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:29:26] Too early to say what this is all gonna mean. 

Jeff Marek [00:29:29] I wanna ask you about the Boston Bruins because we've had a couple of people tweeting and saying, hey, Boston is still an NHL team last time we checked. A couple of things for the Boston Bruins. The radio show, was it last week or the week before we had a conversation about Tuukka Rask and the future there. Meanwhile, Linus Ullmark has been fantastic lately. A couple of games stopping 40-plus shots. It looked really good. I'm sure he can see, you know, Tuukka Rask showing up on the ice and saying, hold on a second here, I'm supposed to be the guy. Do you have a thought on what's happening with Boston right now? I mean, Jake DeBrusk is obviously the Jake DeBrusk situation. We know where that's headed. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:30:07] You know what? You know what I see when I see Boston? Who's gonna to take over for these guys? 

Jeff Marek [00:30:12] Who's going to take over for... the top line? For the perfection line, you mean? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:30:16] Yes. 

Jeff Marek [00:30:16] Like Patrice Bergeron when it may be all over as early as the end of this season? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:30:20] And Marchand still has a few years under contract, and he's at the peak of his powers. He's still a great player. Pastrnak is gonna be there for a long time, and I think McAvoy has shown that he's a Norris Trophy level talent. But who else is a Bruin? Who else is a lead Bruin might be the better way to do it. 

Jeff Marek [00:30:43] Mhm. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:30:43] I still think that these guys and, they're great players, so in some ways they should have an outsized role on the team. But I'm kind of wondering is, you know, who's gonna step up and say, I'm going to ease the load on those guys? I don't think enough of players have done it. Like, McAvoy's done it. 

Jeff Marek [00:31:05] Yes, he has. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:31:06] But how many more players there can you really look at and say, they've carved out a big space on that team? 

Jeff Marek [00:31:15] You know, there's a wonderful business book by Jim Collins called Good Is The Enemy Of Great. And when I look at the Boston Bruins, here's what I think Elliotte. Are they comfortable being good after having been great for a number of years? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:31:31] Not a chance. You think—you think Cam Neely's good with that? 

Jeff Marek [00:31:35] No, but hang on a second year because right now, where are they—where are they trending? They're trending to being good. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:31:41] Mhm. 

Jeff Marek [00:31:42] What did they do with that is ultimately my question. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:31:45] It's not good enough for them. 

Jeff Marek [00:31:47] No, I know. But is there enough there right now that they can become great again or, did they either have to draft-develop or go the free agency route to get back to being great? Cause right now they're trending to—listen, I asked the same question of the Pittsburgh Penguins at the same time as well. Are they comfortable being good? Not great. And that's where they've been the last couple of seasons. As uncomfortable as that may be for everybody there, I see Boston trending the same way. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:32:15] First of all, they're coming back from the road, and I'm sure we're gonna get some clarity on Rask in the next little bit, right? Yeah, but okay, among the forwards, who's going to be that forward and steps up and says, I know it's Bergeron, I know it's Marchand. I know it's Pastrnak, but I'm in that sentence too. And it's not there right now. 

Jeff Marek [00:32:35] It's not there. It's not there, and it's not coming, either. That's why I asked the question. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:32:42] Well that's it. Like this whole thing with DeBrusk, it's kind of the last hope from their three picks in a row in the first round of 2015. And there's something symbolic about that, but they're still searching for the next forward, right? 

Jeff Marek [00:33:00] Mhm. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:33:01] Well, now we're getting closer because as you said, Bergeron's in the last year and you know, we don't know what he's going to decide. Bergeron's number's going up when he's done. Marchand's number's going up when he's done. Both those guys, I think, are going to the Hall of Fame. Pastrnak, he's on the road. Those are hard guys to replace. Chara. He's going to the Hall of Fame. His number's going up in the rafters. McAvoy, he's on the way. But who's your next guy? 

Jeff Marek [00:33:31] I don't know. Pretty soon you're gonna be saying, we're basing this whole thing around a winger and a defenseman. And we're growing it from there. But that's the reality. Those are their two star pieces. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:33:40] There's a piece of video of Marchand. The Boston Bruins put it out on their Twitter feed. It's from their Behind the B series, which is excellent, and he talks about how, we're not like any other organization. We have a high standard. It is just an awesome speech. 

Jeff Marek [00:33:54] Mhm. 

Interview Clip [00:33:55] [Brad Marchand's speech: "You know, this is an opportunity for you guys to kind of come in and see what happens. I've been in your shoes I know, you know, it's a nervewracking time. There's a lot that you can learn from being here. We're not like any other organization. We have a very high standard of a teammate. You know, if you come in here and you're not a good teammate, if you don't work hard, you will not be here. It's just we won't let you be here. We won't let you come in here and not push. You have to push me. That's what we need in this group. You know, we expect everyone every day to come in and compete hard because at the end of the day, we're not just trying to be part of this group, we're trying to win a Stanley Cup. And to do that, you need to realize how hard it is down the road. Work hard, have fun, nice to meet you guys. Like I said good job today and enjoy the week."]

Elliotte Friedman [00:34:48] I heard it and I ran through my office wall. 

Jeff Marek [00:34:52] Like the Kool-Aid man? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:34:54] Like the Kool-Aid—? Oh yeah. You know, I've heard people in our business say before like, I don't wanna replace the legend. I wanna be the person who replaces the person who fails to replace the legend, which to me is total loser thinking. And maybe that's what happened. Maybe some of their guys are looking at what Bergeron's done and what Marchand's done and what Chara does, and the way these guys take care of themselves and, cause those guys are just great players. Those guys are also elite-level driven humans. And maybe people get intimidated by that. Maybe people look at them and say, I can't possibly keep up to that standard. But when I look at the Bruins, that's what I look at is, where's the next one? 

Jeff Marek [00:35:41] From the Boston Bruins I wanna go to Ben Bishop. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:35:43] Yes. 

Jeff Marek [00:35:43] Ben Bishop. Listen, first of all. I know how bad he wanted this. I know there are a lot of people that were telling Ben Bishop, you know, don't even push for, you know, some games the American Hockey League. Bishop pushed himself, really wanted to give it a try, really wanted to make this work. Sure, east-west is a little bit of an issue, but I gotta try the knee out. I'm going to fight and claw my way to try to get—I've talked to you about this before and I've always used the Peter Forsberg example, I love the guys that won't quit. And if I can play, I'm gonna get myself in there, no matter what it takes. Ben Bishop, man, he tried everything to stay in this game when his body kept saying, no, no, no. You know, six foot seven, two hundred and what? Like, 30-40 pounds. Big guy. A style that was really taxing on his body. So maybe we'll look at it and we say, wow, how did that body survive 11 seasons in the NHL, given the demands of the modern goaltender? I of think Ben Bishop, who, you know, is, that's it for the career. I look at Ben Bishop and I say, man, first of all, A, good for you for fighting with everything that you had to try to stay in the game, and, Elliotte. At his prime, like he was one of the top goaltenders in the world over a stretch period. I always loved Ben Bishop. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:37:09] And took him a while to get there too. 

Jeff Marek [00:37:11] Sure did. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:37:12] It started in St. Louis, goes to Ottawa and ends up in Tampa. You know, it took a while for him to get to where he needed to go. I'm just really impressed that he gave it one more chance cause it would have been very easy for him to just say, you know what? I don't need this. I've made my money. I had my run. But no. He gave it another shot. People don't always understand what makes an elite athlete elite. And it's that kind of attitude that says, I'm not giving up on this, even though it's against all odds. That's what makes the elite elite. 

Jeff Marek [00:37:53] I loved watching him. I loved a goaltender that was that big perform that well. Biggest goaltender. Something you mentioned on Hockey Night on Saturday, and that is the Edmonton Oilers and what they need to do to demonstrate a commitment to Connor McDavid and Leon Draisaitl. I can't believe that everybody in the hockey world wasn't listening slash watching you on Saturday but for those who may not have, as shocking as it may sound, do you wanna go over what you talked about in the intermission? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:38:20] Well, I haven't watched the after hours yet. I was going to watch it tonight. So if Ken Holland contradicts any of this, Amil, you and I may have to edit it. So basically, what I said is I heard that Edmonton's considering three kinds of areas: goalie. 

Jeff Marek [00:38:34] Yeah. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:38:34] —And Mike Smith's health could determine that, left defense, and third line center. Those are the three kinds of things he's looking at, and I don't know what his timeline is, and I don't know what he thinks is the most important. But when I think about what Edmonton's considering, those are the positions I believe they're looking at. And I think the Oilers realize that this is a year they kind of have to go for it. You've gotta make your star players happy, and I believe that's their plan, and I think he will go for it? I just don't know what his timeline is. 

Jeff Marek [00:39:08] Safe to say that pretty much everything is in play to satisfy those needs. A first round pick, I'm talking about high end prospects, like these things are on the table if you're Edmonton. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:39:22] I'm not so sure about the high end prospects. I'm not sure about that, Jeff, but I do know that he did say at the beginning of the year with Bob Stauffer that if they're in the race, he will definitely trade his first rounder, and they're in the race. But the high end prospects I'm not so sure about like, I'm not—I'm not convinced they're trading an Evan Bouchard or our Broberg or anything like that. If they do, I assume we'll see the trade and understand why. I haven't heard anything about top prospects, but I have heard about first rounders. 

[00:39:54] [Break.] 

Jeff Marek [00:40:04] Okay, Elliotte, let's get in a couple of the emails here. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:40:06] Sure. 

Jeff Marek [00:40:06] 32thoughts@sportsnet.ca. We already had one of the calls off the top at 1 833 311 3232, and we always thank you for your contributions. This comes from Adam. "I hear a money on the board reference regularly in hockey podcasts, but what is the money for?" Just really quickly, as an aside, you know what I gotta do a better job of? Not assuming that everyone understands exactly what I say when I use references that I assume that everyone's just watched and followed hockey for 30 or 40 years like I have. I gotta do a way better job of making sure that I try to make whatever I do on radio, television, podcast as red carpeted for everybody as, as I do for people that have been following it for as long as I have. Just as an aside, that is—that's going to be my New Year's resolution Elliotte. Money on the board. What is the money for, Elliotte, from Adam? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:41:00] Well, it can go towards team parties and team dinners, things like that. It's generally a reward for the players if they win it. The most money I've ever heard on the board for a game personally, and I'm sure that there's other people who have heard more than me, was... like, something like about $70,000? 

Jeff Marek [00:41:18] Do you know what team that was Elliotte? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:41:19] Detroit. 

Jeff Marek [00:41:20] Do you know who put up the most money Elliotte? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:41:22] I don't know who put up the most money. No, I don't. 

Jeff Marek [00:41:26] Are coaches allowed to put up the money? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:41:28] Well, remember Ron Wilson got in trouble for doing it?

Jeff Marek [00:41:31] That's where I'm going. No, this is a player-driven thing, Adam, and thanks for the email on that one. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:41:37] As a matter of fact Wilson got in trouble for mentioning that he did it. 

Jeff Marek [00:41:42] Tom from Maine. "Do you know how many AHL players are vaccinated? I'm wondering if that may be the means of transmission, given so many AHL-NHL transactions recently." So here's the here's the deal on that. All but one player in the American League are vaccinated. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:42:01] There's only one there, too, eh? Because you can't get called up if you're not vaccinated. 

Jeff Marek [00:42:05] There's only one. Joel L'Esperance is the only one, but I don't know. I don't have clarity on ECHL callups. But as far as AHL regulars there is only the one. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:42:16] I think that might have been the reason he was sent down too by Dallas, was it? 

Jeff Marek [00:42:20] Well, okay. So the story that I was told is he thought he was going down anyway. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:42:24] Mhm. 

Jeff Marek [00:42:26] And so he didn't get vaccinated I mean I think he was obviously in the—against the vaccinations to begin with, and he thought he was going down to the American League anyhow. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:42:34] Okay, fair enough. 

Jeff Marek [00:42:35] There's that story. Neal from Sydney, Australia. "There's long been talk of meddling by the Aquilinis in the day-to-day running of the Canucks, going back to Trevor Linden leaving the team. I wanted to ask to what degree is that just the idle chatter of keyboard warriors on internet forums slash Twitter or has talk of that spread to the media and others in the hockey world and if so, what does it look like? Also, generally, what would you consider fair game for owner involvement versus crossing the line? I personally don't expect the owners to be silent partners, and I'm interested in your perspective on when owner involvement helps or hinders teams. It has to be tough when you're paying $650 million and everyone around you is saying, thanks for the check, now sit over there and keep your mouth shut." 

Elliotte Friedman [00:43:25] Yeah, that doesn't work anymore. That's—that's a—I gotta say like, that's a great question. 

Jeff Marek [00:43:30] It really is. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:43:31] And because I still think there's one or two GMs in the league who tell their owners that, you know, I'm only going to tell you what I think you need to know. And that doesn't work anymore, and you have to have an owner—the only way that works is if you have an owner who, A, believes incredibly in his General Manager, and B, is either so busy with other things that they simply can't be involved. But generally, that doesn't work anymore like I do know of one GM who was fired because their owner's basic rule to them was don't surprise me. And he surprised them once too often. 

Jeff Marek [00:44:16] Is this why one of the skills we keep hearing now, no matter who we talk to, one of the skills now that managers need to have is managing upwards, and the ability to manage your owner is of primary importance. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:44:29] Well, I think also too, like I know some situations also where... One of the jobs that the President of Hockey Operations has is, I'll manner of job and the GM, like if you have a President of Hockey Operations-GM situation where the President of Hockey Operations job is to manage up. Or if you have a President of Hockey Operations and just a President, a good President will say, look, I'll manage up, you run the team. But again, you better make sure that I know everything that's going on here. You know, everybody thinks being a GM is just about drafting players and making trades? It's not. It's a lot of managing. And you know, when we had the thing with Mike Forde, making sure your messaging is proper, I do believe is a huge part of that. Do the Aquilinis meddle more than anybody else? I'm not convinced of that? I think there are plenty of owners in this league who make their opinions heard. You know, number one, I think it's Vancouver, it's a really intense market, so I think that stories about what's going on in there kind of get out more than in some other markets. I do think that in the Linden-Benning situation though, however? Ownership picked between a version that they hoped was true versus a version that they may not have wanted to hear, which is an owner's prerogative. So I do think they picked Benning over Linden in that particular case because they liked the path that Benning presented. That's not the first time that's happened in the NHL, and it's not the last. You have to put up with that. You have to be able to sell ownership on your plan. I gotta say this, Benning got, what, nine years? I think most GMs would kill for nine years. 

Jeff Marek [00:46:24] Mhm. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:46:24] You know, that's kind of the way I look at it like, I did a list this week or just after, excuse me, I should say after Bergevin was fired, because I was writing that Bergevin and Geoff Molson, a lot of other GMs said they were the perfect owner-manager situation. Bergevin had a big voice and the owner generally backed, you know, everything he did. The owners who I think really stand back, like, really stand back and let their GMs, you know, do a lot? Very, very minimal contact I think here? Anaheim, I think the Samuelis are very much like that, here's your budget and we'll let you be creative. San Jose, Doug Wilson and Hasso Plattner. You know, I think Wilson probably had as much autonomy from his owner as any other General Manager had in the league. I think Steve Yzerman, just because he's Steve Yzerman— 

Jeff Marek [00:47:32] Mhm. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:47:33] —Has a big swing. I think Columbus, you know, again, there's a budget in terms of what they can do on and off the ice. But I think generally the hockey operations there has a lot of swing to do what they do. And, you know, I'll tell you this about Toronto. You know, there's been a lot of talk in Toronto about, you know, obviously what happened with Masai Ujiri, which, you know, as far as I'm concerned, Masai Ujiri, they can't pay him enough for what he's done here. And we know there was a battle over Alex Anthopoulos in Toronto. I have generally heard that with the Maple Leafs, they don't interfere a lot. But the one thing I heard did bother them a great deal, was when they fired Mike Babcock. Because he got 50 million and he got fired, what, half halfway into that deal? And I heard they were very upset about that, and I wouldn't be surprised if that played its way into the Ujiri contract discussions. And again, I would like to state for the record, that that guy is worth every dime they're giving him, but I do think that Babcock being fired halfway through that contract was a factor in how long the Ujiri negotiation took. Jeff, I might be missing one or two. But other than that, I definitely think the owners are involved like, Vegas is a huge success story. Bill Foley's fingerprints are all over that. He is very demanding. You know, Mark Chipman, I think is a guy who's very vocal in Winnipeg. So even teams I think have been big successes. I think they have demanding owners. L.A., I think, is another team where you get your budget and you just better make sure you have results. 

Jeff Marek [00:49:22] Speaking of budgets and GM-owner relationships, there is a story that I wanna share with you. I'm not going to name the team or the manager here. I want to get your thoughts on this situation. I could bias it either way. This is years ago having a conversation with an ex-GM, and I was asking what his—what his biggest regret was with the media. And he said, I just wish the media would have asked me the right questions about the budgets I would submit. And I said, what do you mean? And he said, Well, our ownership group would always come out and say, we've never turned down a budget that our General Manager has submitted, which in one sense, is true. But what they always left out was they always asked me to submit two budgets: one that accounted for playoff revenue and one that didn't.

Elliotte Friedman [00:50:18] Okay, I want you to go back to this General Manager and ask him one question, okay? 

Jeff Marek [00:50:23] What's that? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:50:23] If we would have asked you that question while you were GM, would you have answered that honestly about your owner? Because I strongly suspect the answer is no. 

Jeff Marek [00:50:32] It was in a joking way but, you know what I'm getting at here. What do you think of that scenario and how often do you think that happen? 

Elliotte Friedman [00:50:39] Well, I think that happens. 

Jeff Marek [00:50:40] Just—just to give ownership cover to say like, look, the General Manager submitted the budget, we approved it, we don't meddle. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:50:46] Oh, I think that happens, because I think that people are trained to try to answer questions in certain ways, right? 

Jeff Marek [00:50:52] Mhm. 

Elliotte Friedman [00:50:53] I don't know if I've ever told this story before, I think I have. But when the Raptors traded Marcus Camby for Charles Oakley, I heard that story in the afternoon and I called somebody and I asked them, Have you guys traded Canby for Oakley? And I was told, no. And that night the deal got done and I said, like, what the hell? And they said, well you asked us, have you guys traded? And the answer is we hadn't done the deal yet. I was like, Are you freaking kidding me? I actually blew up and you know, there was talk of the next time that, you know, we'd figure it out and it would be handled better in the next occasion. But, you know, that kind of thing happens.

Jeff Marek [00:51:35] It does. On that we'll wrap. We've taken enough of our listeners' time today. More podcast coming up later on this week, taking us out an artist who mixes jazz and electronic pop to a level that only produces positivity. Lionel Boy brings us his debut record with a low key psychedelic feel and wordplay that's vulnerable while dreamlike. From his self-titled debut record, here's Lionel Boy with Tides on 32 Thoughts the Podcast. 

Recording [00:52:00] [Outtro music. End.]