Jeff and Elliotte explain how Evander Kane became an Oiler, discuss the arena situation in Arizona as well as the press conference in Philadelphia, and provide an update on the GM search in Chicago and Anaheim.
Evander Kane finds himself a new home. Jeff and Elliotte explain how Kane became an Edmonton Oiler (00:01) and provide an update on the grievance that was filed by the NHLPA. They also discuss the arena situation in Arizona (9:30) as well as the press conference in Philadelphia (21:20), take a closer look at the Nathan MacKinnon hit (28:45), add some details to the GM search in both Chicago and Anaheim (33:00), and they take a few of your questions to wrap up the podcast (36:00).
Full transcript for the episode can be found here by Medha Monjaury
Music Outro: Sean Hayes - Everyday Hamlet
Listen to more music by Sean Hayes on Spotify
This podcast is produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.
Audio Credits: MSG, NBC Sports Philadelphia, Orion Pictures, Sony Pictures and Turner Sports.
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.
OPEN //// Jeff Marek [00:00:01] Alas, poor Elliotte, I knew him well. When shall we three meet again in thunder, lightning or in rain?
Jeff Marek [00:00:07] Evander Kane is an Oiler, the Philadelphia Flyers are signing blank cheques, and the Coyotes are playing at ASU. Welcome once again to 32 Thoughts the Podcast presented by the all new GMC AT4 lineup, and buckle up. The day has arrived, Elliotte Friedmanm Evander Kane is now officially an Edmonton Oiler. It's a day we all thought we'd get to. We didn't know when we would arrive at this day. But the NHL finding insufficient evidence to conclude that Evander Kane knowingly misrepresented himself regarding his COVID status or test results in connection with international travel. Do you have a timeline here like this seems to go to such a crucial week for Evander Kane and the Oilers? Can you walk us through what happened this week?
Elliotte Friedman [00:00:50] Sure. I would actually go back to the moment that his contract was terminated and everybody began to figure out here that he was not a restricted free agent. I think people were just kind of, you know, grabbing their bearings- 'What does this mean?' And then some teams started reaching out. Did I tell this story on the podcast that I was talking to a general manager on that day when Kane hit unconditional waivers because the waivers hit at two p.m. Eastern and we were on the phone and I had my AirPods in, and all of a sudden the text came by saying, 'I think Evander Kane is on unconditional waivers' and the GM checked too. And he was like, 'Yes', and I was double checking because I didn't believe it at first. And that executive was like, 'Hmm, I wonder wonder what he wants to do from here.' So I immediately knew that there was going to be some interest. Yeah. Teams started talking about it. It started heating up a bit. And then the NHL,t hey slowed down the process by sending out an email a couple weeks ago that Evander Kane was under investigation for how he crossed the border into Canada on December the 29th, and that really slowed everything down. And who do I think was in it? Obviously, Edmonton was in it. You know, Florida was in it. Tampa was in it. And then they pulled out. Calgary was around it, but I don't know how serious. Carolina, too was a team that was in it for a while. You know, I found out just last weekend that Washington was around it and they were doing their due diligence, they never offered a contract, but they were clearly in it. And then word started to get out last weekend that it looked like Kane was going to be cleared. You know, I kept checking, but I kept on getting warned that the final report wasn't through yet. Until the final report was through it wasn't certain, but the Oilers seemed to believe at least, that it didn't seem like there was going to be any additional discipline. And we talked about this at one point on the podcast, Jeff, but the Canadian Border Services wouldn't confirm anything to me, but I had a tip that they were investigating Kane's border crossing and they were interviewing the officer or officers who had spoken to Kane, and they were also going through their video. And I believe that was the basis of this NHL investigation is what was said when Kane crossed the border. And if you looked at the statement that the NHL released on Thursday night, it said no further discipline because of insufficient evidence to do so. So I think what it came down to was what was the exchange in that border crossing? This is an educated guess for me, If I'm wrong, I'll admit to being wrong, but this is what a couple of people have told me: it came down to what happened in that interview, and I just don't think it could be proven or shown that Kane had said anything wrong. And then once that was done, he had to pick the team, and Edmonton played in Vancouver on Monday or on Tuesday. I believe that Ken Holland and Dave Tippett went out with Evander Kane, probably for dinner on Monday night in Vancouver or met for dinner. Look, I don't want to get any anybody in any COVID trouble here, I think it was all done on the up and up, but I think they met with him face-to-face and they got it all sorted out. And I think after about that meeting, if Kane was going anywhere, it was most likely going to be in Edmonton and that turned out to be the case.
Jeff Marek [00:04:33] So how does the NHL decision impact on the grievance with the Sharks now, Elliotte?
Elliotte Friedman [00:04:40] So I see a lot of people asking about this, 'Well, he isn't getting suspended further, so doesn't he win his grievance?' The answer is not necessarily. What we should point out here is that the investigation was into how he crossed the border and did he cross it illegally? The contract termination was because he broke protocol, and also he returned to the team a week later than he was supposed to. Now, obviously, Kane is fighting those things. We don't know how yet. The arbitrator will rule or if that is going to be settled, but these two situations are different. Just because Kane didn't receive any additional penalty has nothing to do with the contract termination and whether or not he wins that case.
Jeff Marek [00:05:26] Now this is, you know, outside of being a controversial move, this is a high risk but high reward, a potentially high reward move here. If you're the Edmonton Oilers here in this situation, are you just simply looking at this as he has the potential to really help here? It doesn't cost us anything other than the contract. We have one more contract spot. We don't have to give up any compensation other than the salary, essentially, this is is a free player,
Elliotte Friedman [00:06:01] Except it takes up two point one million in cap space.
Jeff Marek [00:06:04] Correct. And accounts for one more against your 50 contracts. But what do you think this says about the state of the Oilers right now? Should we read anything into it?
Elliotte Friedman [00:06:12] I definitely think it shows you the desperation in the Oilers to make the playoffs, how many times have I said in the last month I actually had someone text me and say, 'If you say it's not an option for the Oilers to miss the playoffs again, I'm unsubscribing from the podcast', so we've just lost one listener.
Jeff Marek [00:06:30] Okay, sorry. Nice knowing you.
Elliotte Friedman [00:06:31] I think it just shows you that, you know, the Oilers, as you said, aside from the money, it's a free player and that's what this is about. Like I said, I think there were some teams who were in on this. I think there were a lot of teams that said, 'We're not touching this, we are not doing this.' But Edmonton was desperate, especially when this was going on over the last week before they won a couple of games. And I think they just said, 'We have to do this. '
Jeff Marek [00:06:58] Opinion on this is really split as well. Like to your point about some teams saying, 'We don't want to do this, we don't want to do this to our team', because if you look at the history of Evander Kane and this even predates, you know, the NHL, things haven't always ended up well, hasn't always ended up in a good spot for Evander Kane and the team that he leaves. I mean, part of me says, OK, they have to make the playoffs. You know, Evander Kane is not going to play in net. We know that is an issue that still has to be addressed. But are they helping themselves on the ice? Yeah, but at what cost? And we don't know what the cost is yet because we don't know how this relationship is going to go. But the one thing, Elliotte, curious what you think about this statement, the one thing that I do know for sure is that no matter what happens here with Evander Kane and the Edmonton Oilers, they can't feign surprise if it doesn't work and it collapses, it goes up in flames. They can't say, well, 'We didn't see that coming', or if the room disintegrates, 'We didn't see that coming.'
Elliotte Friedman [00:07:57] It's a risk.
Jeff Marek [00:07:59] They've completely lost the ability to say 'We didn't see this coming' or 'We're surprised that it didn't work out.' And listen, I hope for Edmonton's sake and for a Evander Kane's sake that this is a great relationship and it works out well. I'd like to see teams get in order and to see people get their lives in order as well. I hope it does work out. But what's your line? History doesn't always repeat itself, but sometimes it rhymes. The old quote that I like to throw at you whenever you talk about- what's the one that you always like to use, the best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour? Tis is a situation where, OK, you can make it. It's risky, but you can't be surprised if it blows up.
Elliotte Friedman [00:08:37] You know, Jeff, one thing I did get, I got a couple of calls just from people saying, 'You know, Elliotte, you're not really aware I don't think of the NHL's opposition to this move.' I think they're worried that something could go wrong. I think they went really hard at the investigation about crossing the border. They didn't find anything, but they certainly didn't not try to look, I guess, is the way to put it. And I think they're not happy that Edmonton and other teams looked into this and that Edmonton signed them. And so we'll see where this goes, but I don't think the NHL is very thrilled about it.
Jeff Marek [00:09:17] When do we see him in Edmonton uniform?
Elliotte Friedman [00:09:19] I had heard that they wanted to play on Saturday. They play in Montreal on Saturday and I had heard they wanted him, they were hoping they could have him for that game. You know, we'll see.
Jeff Marek [00:09:29] We'll see. We'll also see about the Arizona Coyotes and where they will ply their trade next season. Arizona State University. On radio this afternoon, that would be Thursday, you said, 'I think this is a done deal. '
Elliotte Friedman [00:09:45] Yeah.
Jeff Marek [00:09:46] Like this sounds and looks and smells like it's a deal that is close to being official. What do you hear? What do you know?
Elliotte Friedman [00:09:54] So, we were working on this story for some time and credit to Craig Morgan who got it done before we did. You know, he beat me to it, it's that simple. But I have been hearing that this is going to happen for a while now. And you know, one of the reasons that I hadn't written it yet was because I felt that I didn't have a good enough answer to some of the questions. And I think what Craig did that was smarter than me in this particular case was, he said they were deep in negotiations like, I think it's much more than that. I think if the team is in Arizona next year, this is where they're going to play. And I think it's basically a done deal. Now some of the things that Craig didn't address that I've been working on as he points out, the seating for the arena is supposed to be 5000. So one of the interesting things I was told this afternoon after I spoke to you, Jeff, is that if you look at the CBA, section 34 of the CBA, article 34 talks about, for example, things like visiting dressing rooms and visiting wait rooms, and they have to be done to certain specifications. And someone said to me, that could be one of the things that you're talking about is that, you know, they might have to change that Arizona State Arena to fit for, especially for visitors, that it reaches NHL specifications. And I thought that was interesting, I think it's possible. So even though it's 5000 as quoted in the article and on their website, I've had people tell me the attendance could actually be 3200. And like I said, I've heard this is pretty far along that maybe they haven't said yes, it's a done deal. But there are people who've been told to expect it that's where Arizona is going to play the next couple of years. I think there's also a question about whether or not it'll be ready at the start of next season. I have heard that the key dates here are in the second week of February, like February 10th to 14th. That is when some of the money is due. Like one of the things Craig reported that I didn't know was that the Coyotes themselves, ownership would have to pay 15 to 20 million for the renovations and things like that, right? I think that those payments have to be in around February 10th to 14th, like in that area. So that's the other thing they have to hit here. One of the other things that people have raised to me and that is that, you know, Arizona State's hockey schedule is done next year. Are you going to tell people the Coyotes are never going to be able to play next year on Friday or Saturday night at home? You know, that's a big concern. You know, obviously there's the revenue question-
Jeff Marek [00:12:41] Before we get there, I do want to get to the Players Association's viewpoint on all of this. And yes, Brad Marchand social media as well, but we should couch it this way. This is couched in the idea that they get the new arena done in Tempe.
Elliotte Friedman [00:12:53] Yes
Jeff Marek [00:12:54 OK, so huge questions if that goes south and they don't get the arena deal after that, then it's wild and it's wide open.
Elliotte Friedman [00:13:05] I think that's a great point that you make is, that if they're not guaranteed the arena after this year, does this all change? That's why I said if they're playing in Arizona next year, I think this is where they're going.
Jeff Marek [00:13:17] And so this would be if they get the deal in Tempe. This is like three, maybe four years until they can build the rink. And so this is that home. And so one of the things that you do worry about is hockey related revenue. Players, of course, very concerned about escrow and teams that are, as we saw famously in Brad Marchand's tweet to the Carolina Hurricanes, you know, drags on hockey related revenue. This one would certainly be a challenge, we haven't heard from the Players' Association yet on this. How do you think they feel about this recent development?
Elliotte Friedman [00:13:52] Not happy. The issue, though, is, Jeff, what can they really do about it? And I asked someone, is there anything specific in the CBA that they can do to say we blocked this? And that's where the person actually told me about the facilities issue in Article 34. And what he said to me is, aside from that, he's not sure there's anything that they can really do. However, I think they're going to make a stink about it. One of my only predictions that turned out right this year is that there's going to be a Brad Marchand tweet about this. Matt Kalman, who's a reporter based in Boston quote, tweeted the Sportsnet article about this, the rewrite and said, 'What do you think about this one?' And he tagged Brad Marchand. And Marchand responded, 'Well, the only way they had 5000 fans at their games now is if they give 4500 away for free, so it wouldn't change much.' So of all the teams in the league this year, Arizona has the lowest ticket revenue per game. I've been told it's about 525 000 dollars a game and this was in December, and they're down eight percent from last year. So the only team this year, as of December that was lower was Buffalo, and Buffalo was the team that was down, you know, 47 percent. It's not a lot of revenue. And if the goal is just to say, can you get to that by having less people but charging more for tickets? I mean, that's a question. If your tickets are more expensive in Arizona, is that going to be OK or not OK for your fans? Only they know that, but I think the Players' Association is not happy. I've had some people say to me today that it's their duty to fight this. I mean, Bettman could always step up and say, 'Look, if I contract the team, that's 23 plus jobs lost.' But I don't think that's what he wants to do either. You know, you've had your solution out there before which I'll get you to repeat in a second so people can be reminded of it. But you know, one of the things we've talked about is that Marchand is speaking up at a time where it's a little bit dicey with the Players' Association because the players are pissed off about the Olympics and there probably is going to be a search for a new leader. Like one of the things that's actually happened is the Players' Association wants to have its first in-person agent meeting in a couple of years. I'm hearing that they want to have a meeting in April, and one of the things I think that's going to be addressed there is going to be the succession plan or if there's a succession plan for Donald Fehr. And it comes at a time where the players are a little militant about the Olympics. You know, if Marchand is any indication, are they going to start taking a bit more of an active role, which some people have said they needed to do for some time, but they haven't. You are going to have players saying 'A 5000 seat arena? I had one player texted me today and say, 'Are we in the Ontario Hockey League?' So this is a bit of a minefield. There's no question about that.
Jeff Marek [00:17:05] Someone texted me today similar to that- funny someone texted you saying, 'Are we in the OHL here?' Someone texted me saying, 'Are you really going to tell me that Shane Wright, Connor Bedard, Matvei Michkov, whomever, are going to start their NHL careers like big name, first overall draft picks, in a 5000 seat arena?' I'm like, 'Yeah, that's the plan'. Like the Coyotes are going to do this with a lot of kids and some really high draft picks and, you know, a lot of college free agents that they sign.
Elliotte Friedman [00:17:41] Like I said, I think this is a bit of a landmine for the PA. I'm not sure what they can do, but I think you're going to see them under pressure to really try to make some noise about this.
Jeff Marek [00:17:52] Yeah, I'm with you. I think that they do something, but I don't know what they can do more than to stomp their feet and make it an issue and raise awareness around it. I'm not really sure that they honestly have any say in the matter. They can't block it. Players can be upset about it, certainly. You know, a part of me wonders, Elliotte again, but I always wonder about, you know, the final minute. Do things get changed? Because let's not forget, there have been a lot, a lot of, you know, last minute plot twists with this Arizona story going back to the days of Judge Redfield T Baum. Is there any chance that this is just the Coyotes trying to get leverage on Glendale?
Elliotte Friedman [00:18:32] It's always possible. There's no question that could be the case. I have had people tell me that they thought they could write a cheque and things in Glendale would go OK, but there's legitimate heat between them. Put it this way, I was told that this had to be done because they needed this plan.
Jeff Marek [00:18:52] OK, so the long term play, then, if there's no new rink in Tempe. What then, is the long term play for the Coyotes and the NHL?
Elliotte Friedman [00:19:03] It's a great question. Like, the one thing I believe about Bettman is he's going to have a backup plan. Finally, he reached the end in Atlanta, and he had his backup plan. He's got one, and I don't know what it is yet, but I do think he has one. I just find it very hard to believe that he isn't preparing for where else he's got to go. It's just not like him. You know, as I've said many times, he will do everything he can to protect this market. He's shown that that's the way he is. I just find it very hard to believe right now he doesn't have his back pocket move if he needs it.
Jeff Marek [00:19:40] So here's my theory, and I've mentioned it on the on the podcast before. This isn't based on insider info. This is just me thinking about what could happen here. If there's no rink in Tempe, they have nowhere to play next season, I don't think the NHL is interested in Arizona relocating because relocating doesn't do the league any financial good, and it removes a potential expansion market from their hip pocket. And nobody wants that. So here's my theory: do we see the NHL's version of the Montreal Expos? Who didn't just directly pick up and go to Washington, but the team was sold back to MLB and then it was up for auction, and that's how they got to Washington and became the Nationals. What I wonder about here is if there's no rink in Tempe, I wonder if we see a scenario where the team gets sold back to the NHL, puts up for auction and just for the sake of argument, Houston becomes a destination and the team goes to Houston. And you have essentially a relocation, but you have an expansion fee attached to it from the auction for the Arizona Coyotes.
Elliotte Friedman [00:20:53] It's a great theory
Jeff Marek [00:20:54] That's what I wonder about.
Elliotte Friedman [00:20:56] I think it's really good theory, and I will tell you, I've had someone say to me that the way you are talking is something that has been discussed, but I don't know the answer.
Jeff Marek [00:21:07] Still more questions with this one.
Jeff Marek [00:22:21] OK, well, we got some answers as we move from the Arizona Coyotes to the Philadelphia Flyers. We got some answers earlier in this week about a potential direction for the Philadelphia Flyers, and I think it's what we expected. Chuck Fletcher and Dave Scott holding a press conference a day after Yandle broke the Ironman record- congratulations to Keith Yandle- and we heard terms like 'Need more top end talent' 'Aggressively retool' 'Everything is on the table' 'Blank cheque'
Elliotte Friedman [00:22:53] I like blank checks.
Jeff Marek [00:22:54] I know I think a lot of players.
Elliotte Friedman [00:22:58] I wish I was in a position to get one from Comcast here.
Jeff Marek [00:23:03] We heard David Scott say we're not looking at a three to four to five year rebuild like the whole press conference-
Elliotte Friedman [00:23:08] It was a great press conference. We don't get enough press conferences like this.
Jeff Marek [00:23:11] I loved it. Chuck Fletcher and Dave Scott give me one of those.
Elliotte Friedman [00:23:14] It was a great press conference.
Jeff Marek [00:23:15] 'Chuck's my guy.' Like all of a give me one of those press conferences every week to dine out on. It was very Philadelphia Flyers. It was 'No, no, no. There's no long rebuild here. Yeah, we're going to do some things this season, but we're Flyers and we're coming back. Damn it. We got some players. We're going to go get some more and we're coming back strong.' It was a very Philadelphia Flyers press conference. Elliotte, what did you make of it?
Elliotte Friedman [00:23:35] You know, like I said, we don't get enough0 there's been so much going on in the world and everything right now- we don't get enough of these press conferences where we get 'Blank cheque, there are going to be blank cheques here'. It's great. First of all, what did we learn? We learned that there's no long rebuild here, as you said, you know, Comcast Spectacor is not interested in a three or four or five year process. They expect to contend or at least try to contend for the Stanley Cup next year. That's number one. Number two, we learned that Chuck Fletcher was safe. What does it look like to me here? It looked like to me here that even if Chuck Fletcher wanted to pull the chute and start over again, like Ron Hextall basically did that. When Ron Hextall became the GM, he said, 'Guys, I've got to get this out of cap hell and I've got to turn some things around' and other people in the organisation hated that. That's not what they wanted. Like, that's in the Flyers DNA. Ed Snider, we're not rebuilding. Who's the best goalie? Go out and throw 50 million at them. Bingo, Ilya Nikolayevich Bryzgalov-
Jeff Marek [00:24:32] Ilya Bryzgalov, come on down.
Elliotte Friedman [00:24:33] That's Philly. And obviously that has not changed. I like, I don't have a problem with Fletcher staying, if that's the mandate. Here's what I think is interesting is that they asked who the core is and what names did they mention? They mentioned Couturier. They mentioned Farabee, they mentioned Ellis, and they mentioned Hayes. And there were some pretty prominent names missing from there. You know, one obviously is Giroux and I really thought Chuck Fletcher pid through proper respect before he got to the meat of it- this will be Claude's decision. And we'll talk about Giroux in a second. But what's interesting is who wasn't mentioned. So they've got about 70 million tied up to the cap next year, which will probably leave them around 11-12 million to play with, assuming that they let their UFA's walk. I'll tell you this like everybody's talking Gaudreau. You know who's a Flyer?
Jeff Marek [00:25:32] Blank cheque, local boy. Come on.
Elliotte Friedman [00:25:36] But you know who's a Flyer if he's not signed? Kadri.
Jeff Marek [00:25:42] Wow.
Elliotte Friedman [00:25:42] Like, he's a Flyer, but again, he's got to be a free agent. We'll see where it is.
Jeff Marek [00:25:47] Nazem Kadri, by the way, with the new agent Darren Ferris as well.
Elliotte Friedman [00:25:51] That will lead to some carnage. But basically, the Philadelphia Flyers let everybody know that if you're a UFA, you have to start reaching out to your third party who knows somebody in Philadelphia and say, 'Is Dave Scott talking about my guy?' That's what this just did. Yeah, I think the Philadelphia Flyers just sent a note to everybody that they are open for business and what do you want to do? And you know, to me, the interesting names about this are, they didn't mention Konecny. What does that mean for his future? They didn't mention Provorov, what does that mean for his future? And of course, they didn't mention Giroux, and they said it's up to him. I think what Colorado decides to do here is going to play a role. I think they're interested in him. I think he's interested in them. It just comes down to what does Colorado decide it needs to do to go out and get to win the Stanley Cup?
Jeff Marek [00:26:43] You know, hearing you Friedge, I want to go back to blank cheque for a second. Is that a way of cleverly tampering with every free agent?
Elliotte Friedman [00:26:55] Well, he didn't mention anybody's name.
Jeff Marek [00:26:57] No I know, but one of my favourite. While you like some general managers, well, we'll talk to agents of players under contract and say things like, 'Oh, if we only had a six foot three, twenty eight year old, two hundred and fifteen pound right shot defenceman who was born in Red Deer, I'd probably pay that guy $3.5 million times seven [years].'
Elliotte Friedman [00:27:18] That's Doug MacLean way. When you have a conversation with someone, 'I'm looking for a right hand shot'.
Jeff Marek [00:27:25] 'Maybe he's got hazel eyes and blonde hair. Boy, if we could only find one of those.'
Elliotte Friedman [00:27:31] Do you think Doug MacLean could be banned for retroactive tampering the more we tell these stories?
Jeff Marek [00:27:37] I don't think he cares. I think he's like one of those I don't give an f pills we've talked about here on the show.
Elliotte Friedman [00:27:42] Oh because he's taking pictures of himself on beaches while we're all working.
Jeff Marek [00:27:45] 'Here I am doing Kyper and Bourney's show on the beach. You like my new office?' I love it.
Elliotte Friedman [00:27:50] I just feel for all the people who have to watch him out there tan . Uh, you know, I'll tell you this when they said that, and I was just making some calls after, the one name everyone was talking about was Gaudreau for the obvious local reasons. But I had people say to me Kadri, like, you know, they said, that guy's a Flyer, but we'll see where it all, where it all goes.
Jeff Marek [00:28:09] You know, one of the names that and I can't remember which reporter brought it up, but they did talk about it, and that was Daniel Briere's role. And you've written about Briere most recently on 32 Thoughts of, 'Hey, have a look at who he's sitting with.' We know that he's going to have more of a prominent position with the Philadelphia Flyers organisation and listen a lot of that was confirmed at that press conference. Not that I think we really need a much confirmation from either Fletcher or Dave Scott. I guess Elliotte, that was kind of an obvious one.
Elliotte Friedman [00:28:36] Yeah. And he said it'll be after the season where we get an idea on that.
Jeff Marek [00:28:42] Couple of more things here before we get to some emails. Elliotte. Aaron Dell, three-game suspension for the elbow on Drake Batherson. The injury is significant. High ankle, a couple of months. Three-game suspension for Aaron Dell. I want to dovetail that into a quick conversation, not just about that, but also the Taylor Hall and Nathan MacKinnon situation. So, Hall hits MacKinnon.
Jeff Marek [00:30:01] The primary point of contact is the hands.
Elliotte Friedman [00:31:03] That was an accident.
Jeff Marek [00:30:04] Of course it was. But where I'm going with it is sort of dovetails into the Aaron Dell situation. MacKinnon's stick flies back into his face. It's gruesome. There's blood all over the ice nd it looks horrible. And you see Taylor Hall's face, like he's not looking around and saying, 'Who's coming, who's coming?' And he's horrified at what's just happened, and he's not that kind of player. But nonetheless, Gabriel Landeskog chases him a little bit, tries to goad him into one, 'Let's go'. It was a great game, by the way, but a lot of people coming out on both the Aaron Dell-Drake Batherson situation and the Taylor Hall-Nathan MacKinnon situation with Landeskog going after him, you know, talked about this idea of, you know, instant retribution and code, and how come Ottawa didn't do anything against Aaron Dell? And how come Taylor Hall didn't answer the bell, even though Gabriel Landeskog afterwards said, 'Look, I saw the hit in between periods and I thought the hit was fine.' But still, you know, implying that Taylor Hall somehow had to oblige him in a fight. Did you see any correlations between those? Those two events and the 'code speak' around both of those two situations.
Elliotte Friedman [00:31:09] It just shows you how the game has changed. You remember Greg Stefan? Greg Stefan and Billy Smith were those two guys, like they were the fighting goalies, right? They didn't just accept fights, they started them,
Jeff Marek [00:31:24] Especially Billy Smith, who fought players consistently, ask Lindy Ruff what that's like.
Elliotte Friedman [00:31:30] Ruff charged at him. I was in a game in Toronto, I don't remember the exact situation, but Stefan fought someone or got into a scrum with someone and gladly wanted to do it when he played for Detroit. And when we were kids, like that was an all out brawl and the goalie was expected to answer for it. I have really mixed emotions, like some people aren't going to like me to hear this, but you know what the hell this is the way I grew up, like I always grew up with 'Don't fight, don't fight', but if somebody does something to you where, you know, they're going to hurt you, or they started it, you're entitled to fight. I didn't win every fight I was in. I probably have pretty close to a .500 record, but if someone pushed me around, I tried to defend myself. I wasn't always successful, but I tried to defend myself. It's just different now. It's so funny. You know what movie I was watching last night. I don't know why, but First Blood.
Jeff Marek [00:32:29] What? Really?
Elliotte Friedman [00:32:30] Yeah, I was watching it on Prime and I loved the movie and I was watching it last night after hockey. Late at night, I was having trouble sleeping and-
Jeff Marek [00:32:38] So you put on a movie about a Vietnam War vet?
Elliotte Friedman [00:32:42] Well, no, it's just it's such a great movie, like Richard Crenna in that movie, and he comes in just
Elliotte Friedman [00:32:52] He tries to get Sylvester Stallone, John Rambo to give up and Rambo's like, 'No, they drew first blood.' I don't know. I mean, I always thought as someone picked a fight with you, it gave you license to, or if someone did something to you, it gives you license to go back. But you know, it's different now.
Jeff Marek [00:33:07] Are we seeing any difference, any change in the situation with the Anaheim Ducks and the Chicago Blackhawks? Vancouver has hired their general manager and their assistant general manager in Émilie Castonguay and new GM Patrick Allvin. Do we know what's happening with the Anaheim Ducks and the Chicago Blackhawks now?
Elliotte Friedman [00:33:25] I think with Anaheim, they had their their three internal candidates have all interviewed Jeff Solomon, Dave Nonis and Martin Madden. I think they have interest in external candidates, Chris McFarland from Colorado, Ryan Martin, formerly of Detroit and now with the Rangers. Another name that has now been reported that I thought was in Vancouver, but wasn't, is Pat Verbeek. I've wondered about John Ferguson from Arizona in Anaheim, and I think there's probably one or two more. I think those are kind of the names, and I think Anaheim is probably getting into its second round. Chicago, so Danny Wirtz sent out an interesting update this week that they're only going to hire a GM. Kyle Davidson's going to be interviewed and they want to have it by the trade deadline. And I have to say that a lot of people are very curious about that. I do think there are teams that have told Chicago and Anaheim that have been asked about permission and they've said 'No, not before the trade deadline.' The one question I have for Danny Wirtz, he said that the GM will be hired and they will be the highest ranking hockey operations person. My question for Danny Wirtz is, is that for now or is that moving forward? As in, could we get to a position where in the summer they say now we can speak to some more people and we may hire a President of Hockey Ops? He said they're going to have an availability and that's a question I would have for him. Is this now or is this all of it? And that would be the question I have for the Blackhawks. The other thing is that kind of confirms something, so Jamie Faulkner who also running the search in Chicago, she has a history in baseball, and I had heard rumours that they were going to interview people in the baseball world for the Blackhawks job and the fact that they've said that they're going to interview people outside of hockey, I'm wondering if there's any chance of that.
Jeff Marek [00:35:35] Well, this is what Mike Ford talked to us about to, that you're not just staying under your own tent, but you're looking elsewhere. On that we'll pause, come back with some of your emails at 32Thoughts@sportsnet.ca. We're back in a moment.
Jeff Marek [00:35:58] OK, Elliotte, finish up here on the podcast with a couple of questions, a couple of emails, this one from Ethan. First of all, Ethan, thanks for the email, was wondering what happens with an agent's clients when that agent may get hired to a new job. For example, what happens to Kent Hughes' clients or Émilie Castonguay's clients, do those players get transferred over to someone else? Or do they have to find a new agent?
Elliotte Friedman [00:36:24] Ethan, go watch Jerry Maguire and the scene where he gets fired and they all race to the phones.
Elliotte Friedman [00:36:51] See, one of the things I think that happened is obviously with Ken Hughes' agency, they knew beforehand that Kent was going to take the job in Montreal so they started informing their clients. And you know, they get the head start to say, I mean, the rumours were out there, so people I'm sure, were trying to see how those players felt, but they could at least have the head start of saying he's going for sure, we're going to convince you to stay. It's also pretty obvious here that Émilie Castonguay's clients knew that she was leaving to take the job in Vancouver.
Jeff Marek [00:37:31] Yes.
Elliotte Friedman [00:37:32] So, guarantee you that the agency was working on 'Let's make sure all these players stay.' But I'm telling you, I have no doubt there was a run on some of these players. Like I guarantee there were a lot of people looking for Alexis Lafrenière's phone number.
Jeff Marek [00:37:47] Absolutely. Jordan from Aberdeen. Hello Scotland. 'Just wanted to hear your thoughts on teams being able to get a discount on the salary cap in a player that they have drafted and developed. It has always seemed harsh that a team who has invested so much in a player that they can't keep due to market value.' That's been floated before.
Elliotte Friedman [00:38:06] I don't think that that's going to happen. Look, as long as Bettman's in charge, he doesn't like- like, I like creating flexibility in salary cap. I like the idea of a franchise player. I like the idea of maybe if a player reaches a certain amount of time with a team, you get some sort of break on it. But that's money outside the system and he doesn't like it. And you may like it and I may like it, and Jeff may like it, and your relatives may like it, but the commissioner don't like it, and he's got 11 million votes.
Jeff Marek [00:38:36] That's true. It ain't going to happen. Rob from Spokane. 'With the frozen cap, at what point will GMs finally get creative with three-way or more trades? I'm a bit shocked they haven't become more common yet, and this feels like the only logical way to get creative with player and salary movements. '
Elliotte Friedman [00:38:54] Well, we've seen some of them. We've seen some. And, you know, remember last year Doug Wilson- or was it last year or two years ago?- Doug Wilson, I can't remember off the top of my head, but someone didn't like the fact that he was a middleman in a deal that got a player to Vegas and one of their media members was like, 'How can you help Vegas?' And he's like, 'Come on, I got an extra draft pick out of it', so it is happening more often. I really think you could see that happen this year because it's so tight. . And there's a few teams, you know, like Detroit, like Ottawa, Buffalo that won't be rushing to make moves at the deadline. And they have cap space so they can facilitate that. Makes it a bit more expensive, but I do think you're seeing more and more of that, and I think there are teams, like they let teams know in advance, like, I think Toronto has done this before, they let teams know in advance: here's what we're willing to pay for you to facilitate it.
Jeff Marek [00:39:51] Great question. And we'll end on this one. Brian from Fond du Lac, Wisconsin. 'I was watching a chippy game between the Wild and the Bruins a couple of weeks ago.' That was chippy. 'Each team has a Filipino brother. It made me wonder have brothers on opposing teams ever gotten in a fight in a game? '
Elliotte Friedman [00:40:11] Oh yeah. Well, the Primeaus.
Jeff Marek [00:40:13] Yep, that's a big one.
Jeff Marek [00:41:00] Their parents were at the game
Elliotte Friedman [00:41:02] And she, and the mother was mad at them.
Jeff Marek [00:41:04] Livid.
Elliotte Friedman [00:41:06] Not she did not like that. And I think they realised they got in a lot of trouble there.
Jeff Marek [00:41:13] Did Ron and Rich ever go, Sutter? I don't know.
Elliotte Friedman [00:41:17] I remember the Tkachuks got mad at the questions
Jeff Marek [00:41:21] That would you guys? Would you guys fight over?
Elliotte Friedman [00:41:23] Yeah, they weren't.
Jeff Marek [00:41:24] They almost- remember in front of the net, they almost did. Got thrown down and then a stick swing to the jock, that was close as we've seen those two guys go.
Elliotte Friedman [00:41:35] Yes
Jeff Marek [00:41:35] I don't know that we ever see it. You remember the Friday Massacre, Good Friday massacre?
Elliotte Friedman [00:41:40] Yeah, the Hunters were in that.
Jeff Marek [00:41:42] The hunters were both in that, Dale and Mark.
Elliotte Friedman [00:41:44] I don't think they fought each other.
Jeff Marek [00:41:46] It's funny because I watched that not too long ago and they engaged- this is during the second brawl- so there's the first brawl when Sleigher hits Jean Hamel and Hamel is out. It's a vicious punch, and then they all go back to the dressing rooms. It's right at the end of the period and then they come out for the next period, and even before they line up the face off, another brawl starts, and very briefly, Dale and Mark get involved. Like it's not like they're at centre ice and the buckets are off and the gloves and the elbow pads, and they're throwing from the cellar, but there was an engagement between Dale and Mark. The one, this was legendary, and I remember asking Scotty Bowman about it once because he was a coach when it happened. This is a junior fight when Scotty Bowman was coaching Peterborough. There was a game against Guelph and Bob Plager played with the Guelph Royals. Barclay [Plager] played with the Peterborough Petes and they had a fight on the ice. They separated them, then they fought in the penalty box and then as they separate them and kick them out, they fought under the stands. Scotty told me it was one of the wildest things he had ever seen. It was in in junior hockey. I think it was in Peterborough, pretty sure it wasn't in Guelph. Pretty small barn. But yes, Brian from Wisconsin, there have been some, not many, examples of brothers fighting with one another.
Elliotte Friedman [00:43:18] I've got to ask if the Sutter's ever, like at some point one or two of them had to do. At least, the very least, they probably slashed each other .
Jeff Marek [00:43:26] Somewhere, something, like none of those Sutters are backing down from anybody and not a chance. I would figure that somewhere along the way the Sutters...
Elliotte Friedman [00:43:34] Now you know what, another one I was just thinking about was because I just googled it, it was in a AHL game. Andrew Peters fought his brother.
Jeff Marek [00:43:43] Are you serious ? I didn't know this. Really?
Elliotte Friedman [00:43:46] Yes.
Jeff Marek [00:43:48] In the American League.
Elliotte Friedman [00:43:49] Yes, I remember this.
Jeff Marek [00:43:51] Is the fight up online?
Elliotte Friedman [00:43:53] His brother was Jeff Peters. Yeah. Now I remember this. Andrew was playing in the American Hockey League, and I got to figure out where Jeff played. I do remember because I've heard Andrew tell this story that he didn't realise it was his brother when they fought.
Jeff Marek [00:44:11] Oh was it in a scrum and he just grabbed someone and started swinging?
Elliotte Friedman [00:44:14] I don't know. I don't remember the exact situation, but I Googled it. And yes, Andrew and Jeff Peters did fight in the game in the NHL.
Jeff Marek [00:44:24] Wow, that's incredible. All right. So that's where I'm going after the podcast on YouTube, wormholes trying to find Andrew Peters fighting his brother. Lovely. Welcome into my life. Taking us out today, Elliotte, is a San Francisco based artist whose musical journey started in the 90s with his debut album, A Thousand Tiny Pieces. Sean Hayes' collection of music is coloured with all kinds of sounds over his 10 albums, including his latest record Be Like Water. from his Alabama Chicken LP, here's Sean Hayes with Everyday Hamlet on 32 Thoughts: The Podcast.