32 Thoughts: The Podcast

Canucks, Islanders and Stuff(ing)

Episode Summary

Jeff and Elliotte wonder if we’ll see changes in Vancouver, how the Islanders are managing their roster around COVID protocol, how the All-Star game might look a bit different this season to limit the exposure to COVID-19 leading into the Olympics, why the Avalanche gave Jared Bednar a two-year extension, hot starts for Alexander Ovechkin and Nazem Kadri, and they answer some of your emails and voicemails.

Episode Notes

Can Vancouver and the New York Islanders bounce back after a tough start to the season? Jeff and Elliotte wonder if we’ll see changes in Vancouver and if so, where that might be (00:01), how the Islanders are managing their roster around COVID protocol (8:00), why the All-Star game in Las Vegas might look a bit different this season to limit the exposure to COVID-19 leading into the Olympics (17:00), the two-year extension of Jared Bednar in Colorado (27:15), hot starts for Alexander Ovechkin (37:30) and Nazem Kadri (31:00), and the guys answer some of your emails and voicemails (45:00).

Find the full transcript for this episode here

Music Outro: North Downs - Dad’s Old Tapes

Listen to their “Dad’s Old Tapes” EP here

This podcast is produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman. Archival support by Vasilios Michalopoulos.

Audio Credits: Rogers TV and Sportsnet.

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates

Episode Transcription

OPEN///////Jeff Marek: [00:00:00] Okay, before we get going on today's podcast, I want to take this time on behalf of Elliotte and Amil to wish all of our listeners in the United States the happiest of all possible Thanksgivings. [00:00:09][8.9]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:00:10] And remember, mac and cheese is an important condiment. [00:00:13][2.7]

SFX [puck hitting the post] [00:00:13]

Jeff Marek: [00:00:18] Here we go. Welcome, once again, it's the 32 Thoughts Podcast presented by the all-new GMC AT4 Lineup and the uh, [speaking slowly] the slow-motion story continues in Vancouver. What's the latest? [00:00:37][19.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:00:38] Someone's gonna think that they accidentally turned their podcast to 0.5x sound because you just did that. They're all going to be looking at their devices and saying, what did I do here? [00:00:47][8.9]

Jeff Marek: [00:00:47] But that's what this feels like. [00:00:48][0.7]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:00:48]

Jeff Marek: [00:00:48] First of all, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I mean, this may end up just being the responsible thing that ownership is doing. If you're going to make a move, take your time and be thorough. We all know what's happened in Chicago and Anaheim, and those new hires need to be solid hires and you can't be frivolous and, you know, just say, well, this guy was successful before we're going to hire him without a vetting process. So I'm saying that it's moving slow, but that's not necessarily a pejorative at all. This just may be the proper course of business for this situation. [00:01:17][29.3]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:01:18] I agree with that. And, you know, one of the things that I do believe the Canucks as an organization at the top are looking at is, you know, if we're going to make changes and I think we all feel that we're headed in that direction, just to make sure that you're doing them properly, that you understand what it is that you are trying to accomplish and where you're going to go here. You and I have both talked about it, that even the people that you think you know, you have to do your due diligence on them right now. And the thing about Vancouver is they've been doing this for about 10 days. It's been about 10 days that they've started to look around and say, okay, who are we going to look into and who are possibilities? And so I think they've been doing that to this point. But, you know, I really thought on Wednesday after that Pittsburgh game that something was going to happen. [00:02:13][54.8]

Jeff Marek: [00:02:13] That night? [00:02:14][0.7]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:02:14] Well, just in the aftermath of that game. [00:02:16][2.3]

Jeff Marek: [00:02:17] Oh okay. [00:02:17][0.1]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:02:17] Like first, you saw the way they played. And Demko, I thought, really bailed them out in the first period and then Pittsburgh outplayed them. But then you saw, you know, the way that Miller came out and talked. [00:02:28][11.0]

[00:02:28] J.T. Miller postgame CLIP: he speaks honestly about the mental difficulties of staying the course when things aren't going well for a long period of time.

Elliotte Friedman: [00:03:08] The way that Horvat came out and talked. [00:03:10][1.8]

[00:03:11] Bo Horvat postgame CLIP: "Obviously it's--it's getting exhausting coming in here and talking about the same things all the time and, I think it's gotta come from within. It's gotta come from us in the room and we have to... At the end of the day, we gotta start getting the job done because, you know, it's slipping away from us."

Elliotte Friedman: [00:03:27] And the way the Green looked and [00:03:28][1.4]

[00:03:29] Travis Green postgame CLIP: I don't know if it's necessarily compete level. I think we have some players that probably aren't playing as good as they can. I think they're--they're trying, they're competing, they're just not getting it done."

Elliotte Friedman: [00:03:41] You just text around and, you know, even people I know? Like, there's one guy who told me in an executive with another team in the league. He said to me, if Travis Green gets fired, he's going to get a new job. [00:03:53][11.5]

Jeff Marek: [00:03:53] Mhm. [00:03:53][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:03:53] And even he was saying to me, after a game like that, it's almost like, it's almost mercy. You almost don't want to go back to work? And then we see what happens that Thomas Drance reports when they're practicing in Columbus on Thursday. [00:04:06][13.6]

Jeff Marek: [00:04:07] Hmm. [00:04:07][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:04:07] Miller gets upset about the way a drill is being done. So he said to me, it's almost like a mercy killing at that point in time. Just do something and get it over with, and I do think the Canucks were thinking about it on Thursday. But again, at the end, they sat back and they said, hold on. I know our fans are screaming for blood, but we still have to do this properly. And, you know, maybe it's as simple as an extra 24 hours, I don't know. Maybe they're deciding all the changes they're going to make? But the bottom line to me is they're in the process. It's just a matter of when. [00:04:45][38.2]

Jeff Marek: [00:04:46] So what I think of when you're talking about this, the Travis Green situation is the--the Ron Wilson situation with the Toronto Maple Leafs and Brian Burke. [00:04:52][6.2]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:04:53] It's a good comparison. [00:04:53][0.3]

Jeff Marek: [00:04:54] That was a firing just because Brian Burke didn't want to continue to put Ron Wilson into games at the Air Canada Centre, where the 'fire Wilson' chants started in warmup and continued through all three periods. That was like, I can't put this guy through this anymore. That's what this kind of feels like here. And I wonder, because, you know, you're right about those--the press conferences, like, thousand-yard stare, right? [00:05:17][23.2]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:05:17] Mhm. [00:05:17][0.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:05:18] Whether it's J.T. Miller or whether it's Bo Horvat--of all of them, Travis Green--I mean, he's been--I mean, this guy probably hasn't slept in I don't know how long. Coaches have a hard time disguising it. Like coaches', generally, coaches' faces don't tell many lies, if at all. And right now, Travis Green's face is incapable of lying. You know exactly what he's going through, and you know exactly what the Vancouver Canucks are going through. But I wonder if the Vancouver Canucks are looking at something like a complete overhaul. Are they looking at, you know, installing, you know, President of Hockey Operations? Are they looking at just bringing in an interim, are they looking at a full-time, are they looking coaching, are they looking someone who's already on the bench, are they looking external? Or is it just all up for grabs at this point? [00:06:08][49.6]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:06:08] I think they're looking at all options. You know, they have Brad Shaw if they wanted to go internal behind the bench, they could do that. You know, if they wanted to go interim General Manager, they could do Stan Smyl or they could do Ryan Johnson, who's a guy who a lot of people think has a very bright future. But I do think they're also considering going outside. And one of the reasons I think some names are starting to get out there, some rumours are starting to get out there, is because they are asking about people. And honestly, the most difficult thing on Thursday was trying to separate fact from fiction like what's real and what isn't. And I think the one that is potentially real is Claude Julien. I think that's a possibility. Now, does that mean that Jim Benning stays because they've got a history with them if they decide to go that route? I don't know that, but I do think he is one of the people that they have at least thought about, does this make sense for us? [00:07:03][55.1]

Jeff Marek: [00:07:04] Mhm. [00:07:04][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:07:04] And they would get permission from Montreal if they haven't already. Julien's in the final year of his contract. [00:07:10][6.5]

Jeff Marek: [00:07:11] Now that's obviously a huge name that comes with a big ticket. One of the names that was said to me today: one person said, you know, if I were Vancouver, I would look really hard at someone like Trent Cole, who's now coaching with--with Abbotsford, the Canucks there. [00:07:27][15.6]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:07:28] It's a good suggestion. Good suggestion. [00:07:29][1.1]

Jeff Marek: [00:07:30] That guy--guy's real smart and has done a lot of good things already for the Vancouver Canucks organization. Okay, so the Vancouver Canucks this week are Exhibit A. And they're probably going to continue to be Exhibit A for the foreseeable future. Exhibit B on a lot of people's radars right now are the New York Islanders, and we know all about the road trip to open up the season. We know the uh, the COVID situation that the team is currently going through and we know the team's in last place in the Metropolitan but we're all still saying or most people are still saying, we still think the Islanders will be fine. It's a team that has a capability of turning it around quickly, going on a long run, and getting themselves back into the race but, if you look at their immediate schedule, it's against teams, the Metropolitan, they still have, you know, all the players that they have [on their] COVID protocol list as well. Like, if you're Lou Lamoriello right now, are you not trying to pull every string and every favour with the league to try to postpone some games here and buy themselves some time? [00:08:34][64.8]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:08:35] Aside from Vancouver and all the Devils fans who were DM-ing me about whether or not they picked up Bastian on waivers, and boy, were they happy that that happened. The number one question I think I've received over the past few days is, why are their games not being postponed? You know, that's the question I seem to get the most. They look at what happened with Ottawa and Ottawa got postponed and the Islanders haven't. You know, the other thing too is San Jose had a pretty big outbreak-- [00:09:03][28.4]

Jeff Marek: [00:09:04] Yeah. [00:09:04][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:09:04] --And they weren't postponed but, maybe everybody forgets about them because their games start at 10:30 at night. I don't have a good answer. But the one thing I understand is that the doctors are making these calls. And I believe the doctors made the call, not the NHL with Ottawa in particular. And I assume that the doctors are making the calls, not the NHL right now with the Islanders. And if you've watched Lamoriello's media conferences, especially the one before they played the Rangers on Wednesday night, like he just looked disgusted. [00:09:35][30.6]

Jeff Marek: [00:09:35] Yeah. [00:09:35][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:09:35] And I know if I'm wrong, I'll get a phone call telling me I'm wrong. But he just looked disgusted. [00:09:42][6.9]

[00:09:44] Lou Lamoriello media conference CLIP: I had no discussions with the league today, and no other day with me. As I said yesterday, these decisions are out of our hands. The league certainly knows the situation we're in medically, and what we do is just get prepared as we always would. And right now, and that's what we're doing, getting prepared for tonight's game.] [00:10:07][23.2]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:10:08] I think he was really upset. And from what I understand, the doctors felt that the Ottawa situation, they lost containment. That they couldn't slow it, and it was out of control, and they had to shut it down. And I think the Ottawa situation was also a little bit crazier because there were a bunch of false positives too that complicated the whole situation. [00:10:30][22.1]

Jeff Marek: [00:10:30] Sure. [00:10:30][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:10:30] But the Islanders, all I've been told is, they haven't felt it got to Ottawa lack of control levels. Now I know that's not going to make the Islanders fans happy. I know that's not going to make the Islanders happy, but that's what I've been told. [00:10:45][14.6]

Jeff Marek: [00:10:45] See, that makes a lot more sense than what I naively thought, which was that there was a number and that is 10 and if you hit 10, all of a sudden you get postponements. [00:10:53][7.7]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:10:54] You know, you know, here's the thing, Jeff. That's what happened with Ottawa, right? San Jose got 7. [00:10:58][4.6]

Jeff Marek: [00:10:58] Yeah! [00:10:58][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:10:59] The Islanders got 7, you know, who knows? Maybe 10 is the number. I don't know, but I can understand if, just say, for argument's sake, I'm not saying it is, please don't podcast me or radio me here. But let's just say the number was 10? I don't think they'd want that out there. [00:11:14][15.2]

Jeff Marek: [00:11:14] No. [00:11:14][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:11:14] I don't think anybody would necessarily tell me that, cause then everybody can sit there and start counting for themselves, right? [00:11:20][5.8]

Jeff Marek: [00:11:20] Correct. [00:11:20][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:11:20] So all I was told was they felt Ottawa lost containment, and that was the reason those guys were postponed. [00:11:29][8.9]

Jeff Marek: [00:11:30] Speaking of the Islanders, what did you make of their game Wednesday night against the Rangers with a little bit of old school attached to it? [00:11:37][7.1]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:11:38] Well, you know, I thought there were a lot of good games on Wednesday night. I really liked that Columbus-Winnipeg game, which had some--what, that had what, like three fines come out of it? [00:11:46][8.6]

Jeff Marek: [00:11:47] Oh yeah, Josh Morrissey with a slash and you know, Max Domi's going banana sandwich and oh yeah, it was crazy old school hockey. [00:11:54][7.4]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:11:55] And the Islanders-Rangers I thought was a really entertaining game and, when the changes happened in New York last year, you know, the Islanders games were at the root of it. The Islanders pushed them around and they backed down from the challenge, the Rangers did. [00:12:08][12.8]

Jeff Marek: [00:12:08] Mhm. [00:12:08][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:12:08] And it's pretty obvious that guys like Lafreniere and Fox? They got that message or they remembered that message. And those aren't necessarily the guys that you want fighting or anything like that. But, like to me, team togetherness is... like that's a skill, right? Team toughness to me is a skill. And I think that when you're best players and Fox is clearly high on their list when he buys into that kind of thing? First of all, I don't have any question that Fox cares about the Rangers, like he doesn't need to fight to prove to me he cares about the Rangers. But I think what it does is, it sends a jolt through your group and--and I think it sends a jolt through your fan base. Whoa! You know, look what Adam Fox is doing. Look what our Norris Trophy winner is doing. [00:12:51][43.1]

Jeff Marek: [00:12:51] Mhm. [00:12:51][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:12:51] And I think that kind of thing is contagious. You don't have to do it all the time. [00:12:55][4.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:12:55] No. [00:12:55][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:12:56] But when you're one of the first guys to do it? Everybody comes in behind you. [00:13:00][4.1]

Jeff Marek: [00:13:00] Ryan Reaves with two assists in this one. [00:13:02][1.7]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:13:02] Yeah, yeah, it was a--a fun game. [00:13:05][3.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:13:06] It really was, you know, you know it's, you know, it's interesting about it too Elliotte, just as a sidebar here to the Rangers. [00:13:10][3.9]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:13:10] Mhm? [00:13:10][0.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:13:10] Is this the quietest 15 goals in the NHL? Chris Kreider? [00:13:14][3.8]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:13:15] Yeah. You know, you mentioned to me on radio today and I kind of forgot while I was eating grapes, you know, I'd kind of forgotten that--that it happened. And, you know, I just think that those kinds of players in the NHL right now, those physical freak, strong, powerful, types? [00:13:32][17.4]

Jeff Marek: [00:13:32] Yeah. [00:13:32][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:13:32] Especially now with the crosschecking being gone? If you really want to impose your will? It's very, very hard to stop you. [00:13:40][7.8]

Jeff Marek: [00:13:41] I'm going to go back here. That was one of the main points coming out of the '04-'05 lockout when it was like, okay, there's going to be a crackdown on obstruction. Everyone said, oh, this is going to be great for all the smaller, speedier players in the game. And I think it was Steve Yzerman that said, hold on a second. No, it's--sure it might be, but this is going to be great for the big guys. Like you can't do anything against them now, like, they could impose their will on you before, but at least you could fight back a little bit. Now you can't. This is a bonanza for those guys. And with the clampdown on crosschecks, all of a sudden your Chris Kreider types, it's, you know, lay out the red carpet to the nets. Right this way, do what you see fit. Back to the Islanders briefly. As we record this, they've lost seven games in a row. [00:14:23][42.4]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:14:24] Yup. [00:14:24][0.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:14:24] Wednesday night, you know it was points for even Philly with the--the overtime loss, they pick up a point, but a pair for Columbus, a pair for Pittsburgh, a pair for Washington... I don't know. Based on history, you don't want to count the Islanders out, not with that much talent, certainly not with Barry Trotz. But... I don't know, man, like-- [00:14:46][22.4]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:14:47] I don't like the math. I really don't like the math. [00:14:49][2.1]

Jeff Marek: [00:14:50] They've got Pittsburgh and the Rangers and Philly coming up next. They lose all three of those, oof. [00:14:55][4.6]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:14:56] I really tried to look at the Islanders a bit more this week and, there's a couple of things that concern me. You know, number one, the identity line. Statistically, it's not having a great year. [00:15:07][11.5]

Jeff Marek: [00:15:07] Mhm. [00:15:07][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:15:07] And I think a lot of what they do kind of stems from them? And that concerns me for the Islanders. The second thing is, is that... and we've talked about this a little bit, their structure always overcame whatever problems they had? [00:15:26][18.3]

Jeff Marek: [00:15:27] True. [00:15:27][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:15:27] That hasn't happened this year. One of the reasons I kind of wonder about is--is their defence finally just a little too old? Is that part of it? You know, Leddy and Eberle being gone. Like, if you were to say who were the most important Islanders and list them, you know, 1 to 20, those two guys might not have been right at the top? [00:15:48][21.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:15:48] Yeah. [00:15:48][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:15:48] But those are really important regular season players in particular. They get you to the playoffs. [00:15:53][5.4]

Jeff Marek: [00:15:54] Let me throw one more name in there, too, as you mentioned the defence and the age and the performance? Devon Toews! [00:16:01][7.5]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:16:02] Yes. [00:16:02][0.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:16:02] Is another one! [00:16:03][1.6]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:16:04] There's no question about that. I kind of left Toews out not because he doesn't fit, but because they were okay without him last year. I think it's fair because I think long term, you hate to lose a good player like that. I just thought that, you know, they were okay without him last year, maybe if you put Leddy and Toews. [00:16:24][19.7]

Jeff Marek: [00:16:24] Mhm. [00:16:24][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:16:24] You're looking at it and saying, boy, we've lost an awful lot from back there. And like I said, the other thing too is that Trotz looks worried. And he doesn't often look worried. So when he looks worried? I think he sees something there that he's concerned about. And plus, you're in the middle of this, so who knows what that's all going to mean, right? [00:16:44][19.7]

Jeff Marek: [00:16:44] Absolutely. [00:16:44][0.0]

[00:16:44] [Break] [00:16:44][0.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:16:59] You write this week on 32 Thoughts the blog at sportsnet.ca about the Olympics, and there's a couple of things here. One, we've discussed this, the potential for boycotts, either diplomatic or athletic. And we may see both, we may see none, we may see one, we don't know. And COVID as well. You want to talk about stories that aren't going anywhere. This is a huge one. What is the very latest? What do you hear? What do you know? [00:17:24][24.6]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:17:25] Well, I think there's now two parts to this story and the biggest thing I think that's changed, and when it comes to COVID in the last couple of weeks, the biggest thing I think that's changed over the last two weeks, Jeff, is that the teams are starting to complain from what I hear. Last summer at the media conference before Game One of the Stanley Cup Final, Bettman made it very clear he didn't like it from the league's point of view, and so did Bill Daly? But they said, we made a promise and we're going to try to keep it. But you could tell they were just plugging their noses and like whatever. And the players were saying, you know, this means it's important to us and I think--and I think the players still feel that way. Now I think what the teams are starting to say is wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What happens if one of our players test positive at the Olympics? What does that mean? Now I've heard it could be three weeks, okay? And for staff who go over, I think that's the case potentially too. And I mentioned that last Saturday on our 32 Thoughts during the show on Hockey Night, and someone said to me, look at the what's called the Athlete Playbook and it's published, the IOC puts it out on their website, and they said right now it's generic. However, there's still a final decision that has to be made. And people have kind of been warned about the possibility of three weeks. So, like teams are like, really? You know, like, what does that mean? Where do they have to serve the quarantine and, say you have a player who's like, worst case scenario, they test positive in the semifinals? That's right before you're supposed to come back and resume the season. [00:19:04][98.7]

Jeff Marek: [00:19:05] Yeah. [00:19:05][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:19:05] Like, what does all this mean? And I think the teams are really starting to grumble about this. And, you know, it's just the--the situation with the boycott. I was talking to one non-hockey Olympic athlete, somebody who's--who's going to be going to Beijing. And they said to me that, you know, now that since the reports first started, came out, you know, you're weighing it in your head. And you know, part of you is thinking, we should boycott because it's the right thing to do. But part of you is thinking this could be your only opportunity, and you've worked your whole life for this. And yes, I think to some people, that will sound terribly selfish. But I think until you've walked in that person's shoes and gone through the last four years trying to qualify for this, I think you have a better understanding of why people might be torn that way. So, you know, I was talking about this with--with an agent and, you know, I said to him, your client, cause, you know, he's got a client is going to go. I said, you know, you better be prepared to answer that question because, you know, it's going to get asked. [00:20:09][63.7]

Jeff Marek: [00:20:10] I had a similar conversation with someone who's going who said, essentially, I'm really conflicted here and I'm disappointed in myself because I have this conflict that I'm even thinking about looking the other way. But I've worked my whole life for this. You know, we always talk about what your heart feels in your head knows, and that conflict plays itself out in sports all the time. [00:20:32][22.2]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:20:33] Yeah. [00:20:33][0.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:20:33] And this is the same thing. Like, this is--your head is going to tell you one thing, what's the right thing to do? And your heart's going to tell you another thing. It's gonna be so hard for athletes here. [00:20:45][12.5]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:20:45] Yeah. And again, people are gonna listen to you and me say this, and they're gonna say, what a selfish attitude or what a selfish thing for you and me to say but--. [00:20:54][8.7]

Jeff Marek: [00:20:54] No! I'm just--. [00:20:55][0.6]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:20:55] Until you understand what someone has gone through to qualify for this, or compete for this, you don't understand the thoughts that are going through their head. I get it. I do get it [00:21:06][10.5]

Jeff Marek: [00:21:06] I think it's human to be conflicted about it. [00:21:08][1.9]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:21:08] Yeah. [00:21:08][0.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:21:08] Ultimately, this is before you make a decision but I all I'm saying is, I understand--. [00:21:13][5.2]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:21:13] Yeah. [00:21:13][0.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:21:13] And sympathize with the conflict that athletes are having. [00:21:17][3.6]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:21:18] It's easy when you've got nothing to lose, right? [00:21:20][2.1]

Jeff Marek: [00:21:20] We're talking from the back seat. We have no hands on the wheel. We're--we're telling the driver how to drive here, 100 percent. The other thing that you write about too, which is, you know, from the NHL's point of view, you know, before they even go to Beijing, is the--the situation in Vegas. [00:21:33][13.2]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:21:35] Yeah. [00:21:35][0.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:21:35] Before that, which is fraught with potential disaster. [00:21:38][3.6]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:21:39] Well, one of the things I've been told is that the quarantines that are being asked for are going to be really strict for Vegas. And by the way, we're watching the NFL games going on while we're taping this. I have Greg Zuerline is my fantasy kicker. And it looks like he just sent Vegas-Dallas into overtime and Zuerline's had a rough day, he's missed an extra point in the field goal, so but I also have Derek Carr, so I want both teams to keep scoring, put it that way. [00:22:06][27.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:22:07] Nice. [00:22:07][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:22:07] So I think the Players Association is asking for some pretty strict protocols at the All-Star Weekend, but it's so tough like, first of all, one of the things they're talking about and it's been reported in several places, is they're going to try to do an outdoor event on the Strip for the skills competition, right? [00:22:24][17.1]

Jeff Marek: [00:22:24] Correct, yes. [00:22:24][0.5]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:22:24] I believe that the hope is that that's going to involve the Bellagio fountain. [00:22:29][5.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:22:30] I choose to refer to it as the Ovechkin fountain but okay. [00:22:33][3.1]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:22:35] The Ovechkin fountain, that's pretty good. So, you know, first of all, I know we're generally not as worried about outside situations as they are inside situations. First of all, Gary Lawless, one of our favourite people in the league and a real listener of this podcast. He gets really annoyed when people slander Vegas. Because he's gonna say, what about Nashville or what about Montreal or, I say, yes, there's a lot of places in the league you can go out and get fun and it could be trouble. But this is Vegas, and you almost can't control Vegas because there's so many people and everybody's milling around and, there's people everywhere, especially on the Strip or in your hotel lobby. It's a real challenge and, you know, I think that that's one of the situations that everybody kind of looks at and says, are we taking a big chance here on All-Star Weekend? I'm sure the players like, I can't blame them. I'm sure the players are looking forward to going to Vegas and having a great time before they go to the Olympics. I'm sure the media who are going to Vegas are looking forward to having a great time in Vegas. I just think it's a big challenge. [00:23:41][65.8]

Jeff Marek: [00:23:41] You write in 32 thoughts about Quinton Byfield and the, you know, crossing the fingers that he can you know, recover in time to go to the World Juniors and you mentioned that you're watching football right now, and here's a peek into--into my life as you're watching the NFL I'm watching the Peterborough Petes and North Bay Battalion play and-- [00:23:57][15.7]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:23:58] You are dedicated to the cause, I will tell you that. [00:24:00][2.5]

Jeff Marek: [00:24:01] And here's why I bring it up. Because Mason McTavish just scored. [00:24:03][2.5]

[00:24:06] [Game CLIP of Mason McTavish's goal from Rogers TV]

Jeff Marek: [00:24:28] Just recently sent back from the Anaheim Ducks, plays his nine games, gets sent back to Peterborough we mentioned last podcast, he's on the move somewhere he'll be, you know, he'll be in London or Barrie or Sue or Oshawa by the time OHL trade deadline rolls around. You write about Byfield and I know that Hockey Canada's got their fingers crossed, but it's not looking good Friedge in your estimation? [00:24:49][20.5]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:24:49] I just heard that the timeline isn't great like that--like he just started skating. I think the other thing too is and this is just me and you talking. Do you remember when Spezza reached a point where he could have gone for the fourth time and he just said, you know what? It's not for me. I've done it three times already? [00:25:07][17.7]

Jeff Marek: [00:25:07] Yeah. [00:25:07][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:25:07] Byfield has been twice, right? [00:25:09][2.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:25:10] Yeah. [00:25:10][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:25:10] If he plays, what do you think it's better for him? Is to play AHL pro? Or to go back to the World Juniors? [00:25:19][9.6]

Jeff Marek: [00:25:21] I'm the wrong guy-- [00:25:21][0.8]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:25:22] After I wrote that today, this is what someone called and asked. [00:25:24][2.6]

Jeff Marek: [00:25:25] I'm the wrong guy to ask because for me, it's, if you have eligibility, you know, not as an overeager, go play junior. But I do understand from a player's point of view, like in your mind, in your own mind, when you check out a junior hockey, it's tough to go back. Like when you're checked out and you're playing pro, you're with the pro team. NHL, AHL. I get it. It is hard to go back. I don't know Quinton Byfield personally, so I don't know where his head would be at on it and what he would want? [00:25:57][32.4]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:25:57] Right, I'm just saying someone called me today and raised that point. [00:26:01][3.2]

Jeff Marek: [00:26:01] It's--no it's a legitimate point, and that leads me to the next person I'm gonna mention here, which I think is an interesting one as well. And ultimately, I think he does go. What do you think about Cole Perfetti? Does Winnipeg let him go? My gut says yes, but I--again, like Quinton Byfield if he was healthy, I don't know. I don't know. You can be sure--I mean, Mason McTavish is going. Like Mason McTavish gets sent from Anaheim to Peterborough all of a sudden, you know, they're popping champagne bottles not just in Peterborough, but in Calgary headquarters of Hockey Canada, because all of a sudden the World Junior Program just got a shot in the arm. And I wonder about Cole Perfetti. I'm sure they would love to have Quinton Byfield there as well. [00:26:41][39.9]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:26:42] By the way, I just got a funny text, by the way. [00:26:43][1.9]

Jeff Marek: [00:26:44] Okay, shoot. [00:26:44][0.3]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:26:44] Someone just texted me and said, I want to talk to you about something you wrote. And I said, I'm just taping the podcast. The next text I got back from him was, better be a good guest. And Marek, I wrote, no, it's just Marek and I talking. I'm waiting for the response. [00:27:00][15.6]

Jeff Marek: [00:27:03] Oh, that's awesome. Who was it? [00:27:04][1.8]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:27:06] Yeah, that's not happening. Do the guessing game, see if you can guess. [00:27:08][2.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:27:08] No, like you'd do the Elliotte Friedman guessing game, it's the most annoying game in the world. [00:27:12][4.1]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:27:13] It's terrible. I agree. [00:27:13][0.8]

Jeff Marek: [00:27:14] Jared Bednar extension. [00:27:15][0.7]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:27:16] Yeah! [00:27:16][0.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:27:16] Two years of Colorado as you're right, somewhere in the neighbourhood of 2.25 million dollars. What does this tell us about where the Avs are at with their team? Here's why I mean, let me just frame it this way. [00:27:28][12.7]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:27:28] Yeah. [00:27:28][0.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:27:28] The Colorado Avalanche have a hurdle, and it's called the second round. They're having a hard time getting past it. I know everyone likes to hit the Maple Leafs pinata with a sharp stick about the first round because candy always falls out, it's fertile ground, I get it, and they do the same thing about the Avalanche but with the second round, and there's no denying Jared Bednar is a real good coach, but if you're not committed to him, some teams might just take a wait and see approach like, let's see how far he gets us this season, and then we'll make a decision on an extension or not. What does the fact that he got the extension, two years or two and a quarter tell you about where the Avs are at with him coaching this team? [00:28:09][40.3]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:28:10] Well, I think they really like him because when they get off to a bad start, remember they were a little bit rocky? [00:28:14][4.4]

Jeff Marek: [00:28:15] Yeah. [00:28:15][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:28:16] And there were some rumblings, you know, is Bednar in trouble because he was in the last year of his deal. And I made a couple of calls and someone said to me who I really trust, if you go on air with Jared Bednar's in trouble, you are going to look like an idiot. And I said, I said even more than I normally do? And he laughed and said yes, even more than you normally do. And that was obviously proven right. Now, you know, it's an interesting contract 2 times 2.25. Travis Green, for example, just did a two year extension, which was a little higher, I think he's around 2.8. After it was announced, I heard they were kind of going back and forth for a little bit. But the one thing I really believe is that the Avalanche really like him. They're invested in him, they think that if they were to fire him, the vast likelihood is that they would not get as good a coach. You know, he talked in the blog about, you know, just changing the way they played and crediting his players for buying into understanding they had to change the way they play. You know, I had a couple of people reach out to me about that from a statistical point of view saying that he's not lying to you. It's very obvious that he came in with a philosophy, and after that first year, which was a total disaster, that he said to them, we have to play a certain way and those guys did buy in. And if you remember from our interviews with Nathan MacKinnon and Cale Makar that you know, those players believe it's mental. [00:29:41][85.8]

[00:29:43] Interview with  Cale Makar from Player Media Tour: "Yeah, I think so as well. I think coming out of those first two games, obviously, maybe in the second game there were mega got out, played a little bit at certain points, but we were still playing to our identity. And I think to touch on the thing that Nate said about the aggressiveness and aggression and playing to your identity. It's for us I think it just got us off of that. Vegas started like chipping folks behind us as a D-corp, and we weren't doing our job well enough, I guess. And for us in that series, we just kind of need to stay patient. We got on our heels a little bit just because they were coming at us so fast with the transition game but like Nate said too, it's a learning curve, and that's kind of one of the things I'll definitely take into next year."] [00:30:19][35.7]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:30:20] They believe they lost to the Golden Knights because they fell apart mentally, and Bednar agrees with that. I talked with him about that, and he said that he agrees, he says that they understand how we need to play and they understand what we have to do to win. They got onto a roller coaster and they kept on going down and they couldn't get back up, and that's an organization that believes it's gonna win. Will it win? I like their chances, but there's no guarantees, but I think they really believe in the way they're going. [00:30:53][33.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:30:53] So the other headline around the Avalanche this week was Nazem Kadri. [00:30:56][2.9]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:30:56] Yeah. [00:30:56][0.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:30:56] Who really got on the radar for a lot of people. 21 points in 10 games, which is spectacular, the Avs are rolling, they're doing it without Nathan MacKinnon right now. You know, we talked on the radio about UFA forwards that are on the horizon. Whether it's Filip Forsberg, we'll see what Nashville does there, whether it's Johnny Gaudreau, we'll see what Calgary does there. This is a UFA year. [00:31:20][23.2]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:31:20] Yup. [00:31:20][0.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:31:20] This is a free agent year for Nazem Kadri, who's doing himself a world of good right now, and that line with Valeri Nichushkin and Andre Burakovsky is just next level, for the week, and we'll see what happens when Nathan MacKinnon comes back and you know, Nazem Kadri will, you know, go down the food chain a little bit. But do you have a thought on where Kadri's at right now? [00:31:39][19.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:31:40] He's in a great place. First of all, like the Avalanche when it comes to contract negotiations, tough to get a crack on. No doubt I'm going to try, but tough to get a crack on. You know, the one thing about Colorado I do know is that they look at their situation and they always look at the MacKinnon number. [00:31:59][18.7]

Jeff Marek: [00:31:59] Yeah. [00:31:59][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:31:59] That's the number one thing like, one time that Sakic did talk to me about some of the negotiations they do, he said that, you know, the MacKinnon number and whatever that's going to be looming large over everything that they talk about. So that's basically what it comes down to is, you know that everything that you're gonna try to do has to work around what McKinnon's next number's going to be. Now the difference I think with a lot of their other situations is they've answered the bell or the questions on what that's gonna be. They know now that Rantanen is 9.25 for three more seasons. They know now that Landeskog is 7 million for three more seasons. They know now that Makar is 9 million for five more seasons, right? They know Gerard--that's a great deal--they've got him to sign 5 million for a few more seasons. Like a lot of those situations are now tied up, but everything still has to work around MacKinnon's number. The other thing too is, this is Kadri's last big deal. I love Kadri as a player. We all know what the big question is, can he keep his calm in the playoffs? But he's a centre, the kind of attitude he has in the sports, as long as he contains that 10 out of 10 explosion, it's what everyone wants and everyone is chasing for. He's in a great, great place. [00:33:25][86.1]

Jeff Marek: [00:33:26] Buffalo goaltending. We've talked about developing teams and we talked about helping young players on teams before and young players aren't helped, and Buffalo has a lot of young players on their roster. When they're out of the game by the end of the first or early in the second, and you're out of the playoff hunt by early December. You know, your goalie can put you there if you don't have good goaltending. And right now, it's a challenging situation with Craig Anderson, who was giving the Buffalo Sabres like, I gotta hand--we've talked about Anderson before, we really gotta hand it to Craig Anderson and what he gave the Buffalo Sabres before he got hurt. And there's no indication that we know anything about if slash when he's coming back. [00:34:07][41.5]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:34:08] Well, the problem is he's not skating, right? [00:34:10][1.7]

Jeff Marek: [00:34:10] Well, that's it. So you don't know. [00:34:12][1.6]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:34:12] And I will say after I wrote it today, there were some people who definitely reached out to say that Buffalo was looking. They're looking for goaltending. [00:34:19][6.8]

Jeff Marek: [00:34:20] That's a--you mean, you need a goaltender who's going to keep the team in games so the kids can feel what three real NHL periods feel like for as long as you can keep going until it just feels like, okay, this is a wasted season, and now we're off to the NHL draft. Aaron Dell-Dustin Tokarsky. The goalie market is tough right now. I know Dallas has excess goaltenders. That might be an obvious one. You and I on radio this week talked about someone like Jake Allen who just came back on Wednesday night to face off, unfortunately for him, against the Washington Capitals and Alexander Ovechkin doing his best Adam Oates impression. Dish, dish, dish, dish, dish. But what do you see Buffalo doing here now? In a tough market to find a goaltender. [00:35:04][44.4]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:35:05] Like Ottawa, I think could be an interesting one. You know, first of all, I don't think Buffalo is going to do Matt Murray, but one of Ottawa's other goalies. Could that be something that they consider concerning they have some young ones? [00:35:18][12.7]

Jeff Marek: [00:35:18] Anton Forsberg, we thinking? [00:35:20][1.4]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:35:20] Yeah, like Forsberg is a guy like, I think ideally you want to get something better than you have, and it also depends on what the acquisition cost is. You know what, like the total wild card to me, and again, like, I don't want to be podcasted or radioed here. But the total wild card to me is a guy like Georgiev from the Rangers. Because his name has kind of been out there before. But the thing is, I'm looking at it with the Rangers like you're a playoff team right now, right? [00:35:47][27.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:35:48] Mhm! [00:35:48][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:35:48] Are you really in a position where you want to do that? [00:35:51][2.9]

Jeff Marek: [00:35:52] No, you're not. But you know what someone told me this week? The interesting thing about--and this speaks more to Shesterkin than it does Georgiev. I was talking to someone about how great I thought Shesterkin is playing this season, considering how many chances the Rangers give up and you see a game in and game out. [00:36:07][15.7]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:36:08] They bleed chances. Yes, they do. [00:36:09][1.5]

Jeff Marek: [00:36:09] And yet they're fine. Like Shesterkin is still giving them .931 save percentage and high danger chances are making all those big saves. They're fine as long as it's Shesterkin. It's the same team playing in front of Gergiev, and he's at an .858. [00:36:23][13.6]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:36:23] Yeah. [00:36:23][0.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:36:23] Right now. So like it speaks great about Shesterkin. Like, that the Rangers can play this way. We talk about great goaltenders erasing your mistakes. Exhibit A you got Shesterkin who if you voted right now to me and you know Markstrom you can make a great case for, Campbell, you could make a great case for as well. Shesterkin's a guy for Vezina. I'm a big fan of Markstrom, I think he's doing really well. The only thing that's interesting is when it comes to the Vezina, one of the things that I look at is how is the backup's numbers? [00:36:55][31.6]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:36:55] Yeah, I agree with that. That's a great way of saying-- [00:36:58][2.3]

Jeff Marek: [00:36:58] If the backups numbers are similar or real good, then a lot of it has to do with the team. And that's the situation in Calgary. Not so much with the New York Rangers at all. And that speaks to Shesterkin. [00:37:09][11.3]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:37:10] It's a great point, I have to say. And you talk about Vladar? [00:37:13][3.3]

Jeff Marek: [00:37:14] Yeah. [00:37:14][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:37:14] How he's been in Calgary this year, that's a godsend for them because now you don't have to play Markstrom all the time. [00:37:20][6.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:37:21] And listen, the Markstrom thing we've known, you know, he's not gonna do back-to-backs that goes back to, you know, the Vancouver days where, as you know, that wasn't--wasn't gonna happen. A couple more things really quick before we get to some emails and a phone call if we can squeeze it in. You have a thought on Ovechkin? [00:37:34][13.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:37:34] Oh my goodness. [00:37:36][1.3]

Jeff Marek: [00:37:36] Because I'll tell you, we just talk about, oh, it's the goals, the one-timer from the Ovi spot. He's doing everything but that this year, and he's having a career year at his, you know, in his grandfather NHL days, Elliotte. [00:37:49][13.7]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:37:50] I just think the amazing thing about it is that, you know, everyone's talking about Draisaitl and McDavid and those guys deserve all the attention that they get. But you know, Ovechkin, he's having a Hart trophy season, and it's completely unusual for the way he plays. Like he's got 18 assists already. He had 18 all of last year. He had 19 the year before. He's on pace for, you know, 72 of this year. He's never had more than 59. He's en route for a career-high on wrist shot goals by 10, a career-low on slapshot goals. I mean, basically, he's completely rewired himself to do what his team needs him to do. He's 36. Just think about everything he's done here. You know, there were people I knew that were worried about Washington before the season. They were down on the Capitals. They were like the team's too old, they're too thin, they don't have enough prospects, Kuznetsov is killing them, stuff like that. [00:38:55][64.5]

Jeff Marek: [00:38:55] Backstrom is injured, they're screwed. [00:38:57][1.9]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:38:58] First of all, Kuznetsov's playing great. He's found himself again. But I think Ovechkin's at the forefront of this. Like he's doing what he needs to do to win, and he's doing things that are unheard of for him to win. I mean, all the credit in the world to the guy. [00:39:16][17.4]

Jeff Marek: [00:39:16] It's weird. But at 36 years old, 9.5 million dollars, and the contract's a bargain for a 36 year old! [00:39:22][6.4]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:39:24] No no no, let me say this about Alexander Ovechkin. [00:39:25][1.4]

Jeff Marek: [00:39:26] I know listen, for what he did to the franchise, all the money, all the money. [00:39:29][3.3]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:39:30] You know, they can't pay him enough. [00:39:31][1.1]

Jeff Marek: [00:39:31] I agree. [00:39:32][0.6]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:39:32] For what he's done for them. They could pay him eleventy billion and it still wouldn't be enough for everything he's done for them. [00:39:39][7.4]

Jeff Marek: [00:39:41] One more thing here. Before we get to some emails, I love John Garrett. [00:39:44][3.5]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:39:45] This is going to be good. [00:39:46][0.7]

Jeff Marek: [00:39:46] I love John Garrett. So in the dying moments of the Vancouver-Pittsburgh game on Wednesday night, John Garrett having a conversation with John Shorthouse. This is after a goalie pull and an icing. John Garrett says, throws this idea out there now, you know the idea that I've been trumpeting here trying to get, you know, on the penalty kill, if you--if you score a goal shorthanded, your player comes out of the box, that's a real penalty kill. Right now, we don't have a penalty kills. We just endure penalties. You just endure two minutes, then he's free. You didn't kill it, you just served the penance, you served the two-minute suspension and then he's out. My idea is if you score, that player comes out, it's a kill. It's a dramatic moment and it's an extreme moment, and I wanna get to that in a second. [00:40:35][48.7]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:40:36] I actually have to say I like that idea. [00:40:37][1.9]

Jeff Marek: [00:40:38] You know what? You know--you know who would do it up great? Vegas? Like their--their team scores are shorthanded goal? I could see Vegas like--they drop the lights, spotlight on the guy in the box and the guy that scored, they all celebrate. Maybe it's, you know, the player that scored the goal is the only one who's allowed to open the gate to let the player out like it's a--Vegas would do something like that. [00:40:58][19.9]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:40:58] Oh come on. [00:40:59][0.6]

Jeff Marek: [00:40:59] Vegas would do something like that. Hang on, Vegas would do that. Vegas would do something like that [00:41:02][3.3]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:41:03] Jeff, you know, you know, you know what you have to be taught? Understand to take the win, okay? [00:41:07][4.5]

Jeff Marek: [00:41:08] No, no no. [00:41:08][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:41:08] You don't have to take the win and then just pile drive your opponent three times after the three count. [00:41:14][6.4]

Jeff Marek: [00:41:14] No, more. No, no, no. How do we do it? Volume, volume, volume. [00:41:17][3.1]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:41:18] I don't want to just win. I want to win by more. [00:41:21][2.6]

Jeff Marek: [00:41:21] So here's what John Garrett floated out there with John Shorthouse. Let me know what you think about this one? This is after the Canucks had pulled Demko, and it was an icing so Demko went back in on the faceoff in the Vancouver zone. He said: [00:41:35][13.4]

[00:41:37] John Garrett and John Shorthouse Game CLIP: "There's one of the rules here. It's okay to be creative. The NHL would say, okay, icing call. You can't put your goalie back in.". [00:41:46][8.4]

[00:41:46] "That would be interesting. You're right, because you're not a substitution guy.". [00:41:50][4.6]

[00:41:51] "That's right.". [00:41:51][0.3]

[00:41:51] "That's a good point, I had never thought of that.". [00:41:54][2.5]

[00:41:54] "Well, now you have."] [00:41:55][0.8]

Jeff Marek: [00:41:57] And here's why I like it. [00:41:59][1.5]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:42:00] Mhm. [00:42:00][0.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:42:00] I think that sports and for the purposes of this podcast we'd just use hockey, obviously, if someone foolish--was foolish enough to hire me to do something with the rulebook or, you know, game play in the NHL, what I would try to do is, I would say to myself, okay, how can I take this rules package and create extreme moments. Moments where there is huge gravity, strong emotions, huge repercussions for failure, great moments for excellence. Like, how can I create these moments within the game? And I think that would do it. Like, when have you ever seen like a faceoff--just think about this one--when have you ever seen a faceoff with as much gravity attached to it or as much, you know, an extreme faceoff essentially, as an extreme faceoff as one where you know that if you lose, the other team has a shot on an empty net in your zone? [00:42:58][58.2]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:42:58] Yeah, I don't like it. [00:43:00][1.7]

Jeff Marek: [00:43:00] The drama would be amazing Elliotte and you would love it you know that. [00:43:03][2.8]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:43:03] No, I wouldn't. You know, I have to tell you, your first idea was great because I think about this: would I want this in a Stanley Cup Game 7? That's kind of the way I look at everything, right? [00:43:15][12.2]

Jeff Marek: [00:43:15] Mhm. [00:43:15][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:43:15] So if you're in Game 7 of a Stanley Cup Final and say it's 2-2 and you take a penalty and you score and your penalty is over? I think that's a huge moment and it's a big play in a championship game. I think if you're down 3-2 and you pull your goalie and you ice the puck and they get a free shot, I wouldn't want to see that in Game 7 of a Stanley Cup Final. [00:43:38][23.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:43:39] But it would just be an insurance goal. It wouldn't be the game winner. [00:43:41][2.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:43:41] Doesn't matter if it's an insurance goal. It takes away a chance for someone else to win. It incentivizes them not to pull their goalie. [00:43:47][5.7]

Jeff Marek: [00:43:47] That is part of it, yes. [00:43:48][1.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:43:49] No. I don't want that. I don't want the Stanley Cup decided like that, I don't. [00:43:53][4.2]

Jeff Marek: [00:43:53] This goes back to my original point. Forced you into making an extreme decision. [00:43:57][3.8]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:43:58] No, I have ruled your first idea is great. This one's stupid. [00:44:00][2.8]

Jeff Marek: [00:44:01] You know who's gonna decide on this one? [00:44:03][1.2]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:44:03] Who, John Garrett? [00:44:03][0.6]

Jeff Marek: [00:44:03] Well, Twitter. But you know, I mean, I think John likes it He's the one that threw it out there. But thank you, Cheech. It's A, something for me to chew on. [00:44:11][7.2]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:44:11] He puts ketchup on everything you can't take his-- [00:44:12][1.4]

Jeff Marek: [00:44:13] I love, Cheech. I'll take Cheech all day. [00:44:14][1.1]

[00:44:15] [Break] [00:44:15][0.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:44:15] Okay, let's get to some emails. Here we go. Elliotte, and we should remind you as well. The email address: 32thoughts@sportsnet.ca. The thought line, call and leave your thoughts, your questions, your comments, your statements: 1 833 311 3232, again 1 833 311 3232. Our first e-mail comes to us from Brian in Edmonton. "I have a few questions about modified no-trade clauses. For some context, I was having a discussion about trading Koskinen and brought up his modified no-trade. Is there a specific date when players are required to submit their no-trade or trade lists? Or is it entirely dependent on the team to ask for it?" [00:45:11][55.9]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:45:12] No, it's your responsibility to get it in, right? [00:45:16][3.6]

Jeff Marek: [00:45:16] Mhm. [00:45:16][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:45:16] The famous story is Patrick Berglund, right? [00:45:18][2.4]

Jeff Marek: [00:45:19] Yeah. [00:45:19][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:45:19] Didn't get in on time and that allowed him to be included in the Ryan O'Reilly trade? [00:45:24][5.6]

Jeff Marek: [00:45:25] Yup. [00:45:25][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:45:25] Now I do know of one situation where a prominent player on a team forgot to get his no-trade list in and didn't realize it until next season. And the team just said, you're lucky we don't need--we're not in any indication or desire to trade you. [00:45:42][17.4]

Jeff Marek: [00:45:43] Here's another one. Let's personalize this. [00:45:45][1.4]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:45:45] Okay? [00:45:45][0.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:45:45] Again, from Brian. "Has an agent ever reached out to you for information that could help him put together a no-trade list for a client?" [00:45:53][8.7]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:45:55] Yes. My feeling on that is I would never say anything privately that I wouldn't say publicly. [00:46:01][6.7]

Jeff Marek: [00:46:02] Okay. [00:46:02][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:46:02] It's the way I look at it. [00:46:04][2.3]

Jeff Marek: [00:46:04] From Alex. "You mentioned Ho-Sang briefly on today's November 22nd podcast. I believe he's only on AHL contract. Could any teams swoop in at any time and sign him to an NHL deal stealing him away from Toronto? Would an agent warn Toronto if that was possible to give them a chance to sign him before a Team X were to do so? Or if that was going to happen, would Toronto just shrug it off and say, okay, go!" That from Alex. [00:46:33][28.9]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:46:34] Well, anybody can sign him to an NHL contract. [00:46:36][1.8]

Jeff Marek: [00:46:37] Hang on. He would have to also clear waivers if that team was going to call him up, correct? Like if you're gonna him and put him on the NHL, he's gotta clear. [00:46:44][7.1]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:46:46] Right. So you sign him and then he clears waivers and then he can go wherever he wants to go. The famous one a few years ago was was Kyle Wellwood. And this was in 2011. He was signed, he was playing overseas, he signed with St. Louis. And when they put him on waivers, San Jose claimed him. [00:47:02][16.2]

Jeff Marek: [00:47:04] Something similar happened to Marek Svatos, the late Marek Svatos. When he signed with St. Louis and they had to place he on waivers to start the season, he was claimed by Nashville. [00:47:17][13.8]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:47:18] So it happened to the Blues twice, right? [00:47:20][1.3]

Jeff Marek: [00:47:20] Correct. [00:47:20][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:47:20] Hmm. [00:47:20][0.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:47:22] All right. Good question, though. I mean, that was one of the things that people were wondering about after they all saw the Josh Ho-Sang highlight a couple of Saturdays ago. So this one Elliotte comes to us from Mikko. Mikko, I apologize, but I am going to read your question here, but we're not going to fully answer it until the next one because Elliotte and I need to put on our thinking toques and actually dedicate some, some brain cells to this one but here's the question. And maybe people can tweet in who they think would be good answers and do our homework for us for each. "Now that we've had quite a gap since the last time we had NHL players in the Olympics, I'd love to hear you guys name some players you think kind of hit their prime during that time, therefore probably missing their shot to represent their country in the games." For me, it's two and it's just top of my head and I have to think about it more and ditto for Friedge: Mark Giordano, and Taylor Hall. Those would be the two that come to mind right away, and I know for a fact I'm missing a ton. But those would be it. But Mikko in Finland, hold on to that one. We'll give you a more thorough answer on the next podcast. That's a good--that's a really--that's really good. [00:48:30][67.2]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:48:30] But those are good nominations by you [00:48:32][1.7]

Jeff Marek: [00:48:32] Giordano and Hall? Yeah, those are. [00:48:33][1.3]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:48:33] Yeah. [00:48:33][0.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:48:33] Listen, there's--I'm sure there's one that I'm missing that's so obvious. Trust me. Okay, Zach from London. "Do you think that if Mangiapane he keeps up his pace, maybe not at this raid, but close to this rate, does he make Team Canada?" That from Zach in London. [00:48:49][15.7]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:48:50] Oh, I think that there's a decent chance he makes it. You know, the other thing too is, you also need guys who--who will be the  reserves, right? Like players who might not be one of your top 12-13 forwards, but you want them there because they're good players and they're not gonna cause you any trouble because they're not going to be necessarily starters. If he's a bubble guy, do you take Mangiapane because he's low maintenance and you know he's not gonna cause you any trouble? [00:49:16][26.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:49:17] Elliotte we're going to conclude with someone from the--. [00:49:19][2.4]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:49:19] By the way, before we do the thought line. [00:49:21][2.1]

Jeff Marek: [00:49:22] Yeah. [00:49:22][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:49:22] I wanted to tell you that there's a new book I'm reading and I think you'd be interested in it, and I think Amil would be interested in it. [00:49:30][7.9]

Jeff Marek: [00:49:30] Is it the history of roller hockey international? [00:49:31][1.2]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:49:33] No. [00:49:33][0.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:49:33] Oh, okay. [00:49:33][0.5]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:49:33] It's called Tinderbox. [00:49:34][1.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:49:35] Okay. [00:49:35][0.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:49:35] Now Tinderbox is written by James Andrew Miller. [00:49:39][3.8]

Jeff Marek: [00:49:39] It's about a dating app? [00:49:40][0.6]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:49:41] No, it's not about that. Because, you know, why would you and I be interested in dating apps? Our wives should be in on dating apps, not the two of us. But it's HBO's ruthless pursuit of new frontiers. Now james Andrew Miller is a writer and podcaster. He wrote the ESPN book, he wrote The Big Saturday Night Live Oral History, and he's done podcasts on Curb Your Enthusiasm. And he did a podcast now, I was never big on Sex in the City. I took my wife to their movies because, you know, at that time, I don't think we were married and I was still trying to impress her. But he did a Sex and the City podcast that was incredible. Like just the stories, especially some of the fighting between the cast. I would recommend it. So he's got a new book out, Tinderbox: HBO's Ruthless Pursuit of New Frontiers and I love books about television and the inner workings of television and media. It's massive, like, the thing is gigantic, and I'm gonna be starting it tonight after we're done this podcast. [00:50:42][60.9]

Jeff Marek: [00:50:42] All right, well, keep us up to date then the uh, the Elliotte Friedman non-hockey book club. What this one's all about, because I'm--I'm just--listen. You know what I just started? Brian MacFarlane's book like we talked about last podcast. [00:50:54][11.3]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:50:54] Yeah, you mentioned that the other day. [00:50:55][1.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:50:55] I can't. I'm gonna have him on the radio show. I see him around town. We both live in Stouffville, I see Brian around town. [00:51:00][4.5]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:51:00] Yeah. [00:51:00][0.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:51:00] Just a delightful guy. And so that's--so you're reading that and I'm reading Brian MacFarlane's autobiography. So that's where we're at for books. Okay, let's get to the thought line. A quickie here about... Hmm. Things we collect. Hit it Amil. [00:51:15][14.9]

Caller: [00:51:15] "Hey, guys, big fan of the work you guys do covering this great game, keep it up. Of being around the game for as long as you two have, I'm sure you've been able to collect some pretty cool hockey memorabilia over the years. So I'm curious, what is your most treasured piece of hockey memorabilia that you have and what's the story behind it? Thanks for your time, guys." [00:51:35][20.1]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:51:36] Ooh, what about, what's your-- [00:51:36][0.2]

Jeff Marek: [00:51:37] I don't really have any. I'm not a collector of memorabilia. I'm not. Like honestly the only thing that I really collect, I collect books. [00:51:43][5.8]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:51:44] Yeah, I do, too. [00:51:44][0.8]

Jeff Marek: [00:51:44] The rarest hockey books that I have are probably Anatoly Tarasov's Road to Olympus, which is a treasure. And I read it again last year. I remember talking to Mike Sullivan about it when we--it must have been two years ago when we talked to him, Mike Sullivan. We ended up talking about Winston Churchill and Anatoly Tarasov off-air and it's fascinating, he had read the book too. And They Call Me Gump, The Autobiography of Gump Worsley. But I don't really--I mean, Ryan O'Reilly gave me one of his hockey sticks with the freakish curve on it. So when y,ou know, buddies come over, I'm like, hey, you wanna see Ryan O'Reilly's stick? Check this out. I've got like a 1974 NHL Players Association Pete Mahovlich lunchbox, but I don't know that's something I gotta wave around at parties. I remember. You know what? I'll tell you what, I remember going to Bill Watters' place and really--Bill, you know, former Assistant General Manager with the Leafs, longtime agent, broadcaster, Bon Vivant man about town. Wonderful guy. I remember going to his place and the first thing he did, he goes, I want to show you something. And he took me downstairs and he's got a lot of, you know, Bobby Orr stuff because, you know, he helped represent Bobby Orr with Alan Eagleson. And I walked downstairs and there was--and the only other one I've seen of this Elliotte is at the Hockey Hall of Fame. The Bobby Orr pinball machine. [00:53:06][81.5]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:53:06] Hm! [00:53:06][0.0]

Jeff Marek: [00:53:06] Where there's the big mistake on it, which is they have Bobby Orr as a right hand shot when he was, of course, as we all know, a left hand shot. But you see Bill would collect things like that, you know, from international tournaments, he'd grab like a jersey from someone on, you know, from Czechoslovakia or from Sweden, and that would be in there. But I don't really have anything that can compare with that because I've never. To be honest with you Friedge, I've never really collected anything. [00:53:32][25.2]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:53:33] I'm like you, I'm interested in books, I have a lot of book. But I collect all my press passes, like whenever I cover an event and I get a credential, I keep those. One of the things I was thinking while you were talking cause I wanted to give our caller a good answer is that-- [00:53:49][15.8]

Jeff Marek: [00:53:51] Unlike me. Nice shot. [00:53:51][0.1]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:53:51] Well, I had the benefit of time here, right? Because you only talked for about seven minutes on how you don't collect any. [00:53:56][4.9]

Jeff Marek: [00:53:57] While I stammered over saying nothing. Most empty calorie answer ever on this podcast. But yeah. [00:54:01][4.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:54:01] So the first Stanley Cup I covered from beginning to end, cause in 1998 the Stanley Cup Final I covered just the first two games, Detroit-Washington. But the first one I did beginning to end was 1999, which was Dallas-Buffalo. And when the Sabres lost on the disputed goal in Game 6. Mike Peca smashed his stick coming off the ice. It was right in front of me and, you know I got off the air around 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning. That's how late we were working then I was at the score, and the stick was right there and I just said, you know what? I'm taking this as a memory of the first Stanley Cup I ever covered from beginning to end. So it's still--I still have it. It's in my garage. [00:54:43][41.7]

Jeff Marek: [00:54:44] Nice. I think I have a--I used to, I don't know where it went--I used to have a Bunny Larocque goalie stick from when he played with the Maple Leafs. I don't know, in various moves, things get lost and that's gone. But as of now, I thought about this a little bit longer as you were talking and I was ignoring you. You know what? There is something that I collect there, but I don't consider it to be collectable, and that's videos. I've been an amateur collector of obscure--surprise, surprise--hockey videos going back decades. There's one from the '60s which is house footage at Maple Leaf Gardens of a brawl where all Orland Kurtenbach fights Terry Harper twice. [00:55:25][41.8]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:55:27] Oh my goodness. [00:55:27][0.1]

Jeff Marek: [00:55:27] In the same brawl, and it doesn't end well for Harper, but I've also got a copy and it's super rare. I've talked to some of the people that were involved in the incident and even the sons of people that were in the incident. And I showed Bob McGill the incident, and he said, my dad was at the game and he told me about it, but I never believed him because it sounded so outrageous. But now I know my dad wasn't BS-ing me, this is crazy. The '65 Memorial Cup, where the Niagara Falls Flyers face off against the Edmonton Oil Kings and Derek Sanderson sucker-punches Bob Falkenberg, which is the worst attack I've ever seen in hockey and cops hit the ice and there's Billy Clubs and in the back they're playing God save the Queen on the video. Now do you know why they do that Elliotte, I mean why they used to do that? So, there was--and this started in the Maritimes, so can I get a hockey geeky on your Friedge? [00:56:22][55.0]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:56:23] That never happens. [00:56:24][0.7]

Jeff Marek: [00:56:25] I know, so... Once upon a time when the referees in Canada would lose control of a hockey game, massive brawls fighting all of it, and they couldn't calm everybody down. What they would do is they would instruct over the PA to play God Save the Queen, because the law of the land was once you heard God Save the Queen, which before O Canada was the national anthem, you had to stop what you were doing and stand at attention. That was the only way they could-- [00:56:50][25.6]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:56:51] It's like on Slapshot, I'm listening to the song. [00:56:51][0.1]

Jeff Marek: [00:56:53] I'm listening to the song, yeah! And faintly in the back of the old Edmonton Gardens, as cops are hitting the ice chasing kids around the ice, you can hear in the background they're starting to play God Save the Queen to try to get everybody to stop. And the other--the other great part of that story and this video was wild. Now I don't have this on video, but they lead Sanderson off of the ice. Three members of the Oil Kings alumni grab Sanderson, drag him into a room and beat him unconscious, right? Because it's such a horrible attack on Falkenberg. And do you know who one of those people were? Oil Kings alumni- [00:57:29][36.3]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:57:30] Glen Sather? [00:57:30][0.3]

Jeff Marek: [00:57:31] Glen Sather. [00:57:32][0.4]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:57:32] Oh, what a guess!

Jeff Marek: You nailed it. Friedge, that's amazing. You nailed it. [00:57:36][4.3]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:57:37] What a guess! [00:57:37][0.4]

Jeff Marek: [00:57:37] Oh my--I can't believe you nailed that! Do you know this story, or was that a total guess? [00:57:41][3.8]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:57:42] It was a total guess because you said Oil Kings alumni and I guessed around 1965, I figured it was a shot that--. [00:57:47][5.1]

Jeff Marek: [00:57:48] Friedge, that's amazing! [00:57:48][0.6]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:57:48] The only other guy that like, actually, I don't even know if there was another guy I was thinking of. The Edmonton Oil Kings 1965 alumnus, I was. I was just saying like, I can't remember when Sather played there, but that's what I'm going with. [00:58:02][13.3]

Jeff Marek: [00:58:02] Yeah, no. Glen Sather was what, and the thing about it is a couple of years later, they're both playing in the Bruins organization, and they were roommates in Tulsa, playing in the minors. And I remember asking Sanderson once, I go, did you guys ever talk about it? He said, never. Like, how do you never have the conversation, oh, yeah, remember when you and three of your teammates, a couple of older kids like beat me senseless, knocked me unconscious, and threw me out into the hallway? Anyway, that's what I collect. I collect old videos. [00:58:29][27.1]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:58:30] I think some people have tried to do it at work before, but I talked them out of it. [00:58:34][3.6]

Jeff Marek: [00:58:35] Oh, that's awesome. Listen, I'm very seldom impressed at you and by you, but I got to tell you, you're pulling out Glen Sather there? That's uh, that's good Friedge. Well done. You get the first star of this podcast for that one. [00:58:48][13.5]

Elliotte Friedman: [00:58:49] Oh, my goodness. [00:58:50][0.4]

Jeff Marek: [00:58:50] That's a great pull. Okay! So that's that was that Memorial Cup man. And yes, I collect videos. That's what I collect. That's my memorabilia. Thanks for the voicemail there. Great one. Taking us out today Friedge is a mysterious 3 piece band from the UK. Coming off a pair of singles, North Down's dropped their four-track EP, from that record here's North Downs, with Dad's Old Tapes--fitting--on 32 Thoughts the Podcast. [00:58:50][0.0]