Jeff and Elliotte discuss a pair of incidents that took place in the AHL and the ECHL, and they express their frustration as racist behaviour continues to be seen and heard in the game of hockey.
It was a very difficult week around the hockey world. Jeff and Elliotte kick off the podcast by discussing a pair of incidents that took place in the AHL as well as the ECHL, and they express their frustration as racist behaviour continues to be seen and heard in the game of hockey (00:10).
They then touch on Keith Yandle’s ironman streak (17:15), the struggling Flyers and what they might do next (25:00), some trade talk around Ben Chiarot (30:00) plus where we're with the Jakob Chychrun trade auction (33:20), an update on the Evander Kane situation (37:00), the battle of Alberta (38:00) and they get to some of your emails (41:40).
Our thoughts and prayers go out to the family and friends of Clark Gillies.
Full transcript for the episode can be found here by Medha Monjaury
This podcast is produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.
Audio Credits: 630 CHED, MSG and WOR-TV.
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.
OPEN ////Jeff Marek [00:00:04] Welcome to 32 Thoughts the podcast presented by the all new GMC AT4 Lineup and Elliotte, we'd like to start the programme today by showing support to Boko Imama and Jordan Subban for what they've been through.
Elliotte Friedman [00:00:15] Jordan Subban, a previous podcast guest by the way.
Jeff Marek [00:00:18] Yes.
Elliotte Friedman [00:00:19] Came on talking about some of the businesses that he was working on and creating. Okay, so when it comes to Boko Imama, I always remember the 2015 NHL draft, which you know I was at, and Tampa Bay was drafting 180th. It was the second-last pick of round 6 and his name was introduced, and I didn't think too much about it until all of a sudden he came out of the crowd. And you know, Jeff, what's one of the things that you always look at is, oh my goodness, you know who's still here in the crowd at the end of the draft, who's been waiting for two days to hear their name called? And Boko Imama was was one of those people. What I remember was, I was standing right near the Tampa Bay draft table when he came in and the first person he met was Steve Yzerman, and Steve Yzerman reached out, shook his hand, and I remember he says, Boko, we're so happy to have you. And he had such a big smile on his face and he went around to all the people who were sitting at the Tampa table. And you know there's 20 people at the table.
Jeff Marek [00:01:29] Yeah.
Elliotte Friedman [00:01:29] And they all shook his hand and they welcomed in and he was so happy and this happened right in front of me, and periodically you remember these moments like another player I really remember with it happening to was was Mario Ferraro, when he was drafted by the Sharks, when he came down and I was right next to the Sharks table, and I saw him go around and shake the hands of everybody there and it's a, it's really a huge moment for a kid. I just remember Imama, and I was always thinking, you know, I'm going to kind of follow this person's career cause I saw this neat moment here and now I'm really curious to see where it goes. Two years ago, it was actually January 2020. I just remember feeling really horrible when I heard that he was the victim of a racial slur in the American Hockey League, and on Friday, about 20 minutes before the announcement came out from the American Hockey League, I got a text saying, something's up in the AHL, there's some suspension coming down. And I looked around and I tried to find it, it was difficult to pin down before the announcement came out, but when I heard it was Imama, my heart sank. Like, there's two reactions to this, really, I think a lot of people have. You either get really angry or you get really sad. And I got really sad when I heard it was Imama because I said, why again, like, why does it have to happen to this guy again? It happened once and now here it happens a second time. The other thing I heard Jeff about this one that was really tough was that, when the incident happened, he didn't see it. And as a matter of fact, it was reported by his teammates and good on them, good on them for reporting it. But what I heard happened was, there was a Zoom call with him and he was shown the tape of the video.
Jeff Marek [00:03:23] Mhm.
Elliotte Friedman [00:03:23] And from what I understand, his reaction when he saw what happened? It was just painful. He was so hurt and he was so angry. I heard it really affected the other people on the Zoom call. Like, I don't have words to do it justice, and I probably am not explaining it to the level that I should explain it. But I just heard everybody was incredibly affected by how Imama reacted when he saw the gesture. And I understand that's the reason that the American Hockey League never released the tape was because they basically said that, this is trauma for him, and we don't want to send it everywhere. And I understand that. I know, I know some people will disagree with it, but I understood it when I heard that and I just felt so awful for him. I was thinking about it, you know, basically for a day and a half, and then it happened again. And it's the monkey gesture. And, you know, you'll remember, but a month ago, I wrote about Derek Joslin.
Jeff Marek [00:04:29] Yes.
Elliotte Friedman [00:04:30] The former NHL player who's now playing in Austria, and he's biracial, and the same thing happened to him in a game against the Slovenian team. There was a player who did that gesture and then it happens with Jordan Subban, and it just makes you sick and, you know, I know there's a video that went out on Sunday night from Jacob Panetta, and there's a tie in between all three of these cases. And the tie in is that everybody here is saying, I didn't mean it as the monkey gesture, I meant it as, a you're a real tough guy gesture. And after three in a month, you're sitting there as an observer and you're saying, doesn't anybody learn? Even if I took the guilty parties at face value, I'm sitting here and saying, doesn't anybody learn? These are three incidents and they know Joslin's was half the world away. But still, you know, it gets around the hockey world, these things get around and, and the one that happened to Jordan Subban was 24 hours after a suspension was announced in the American Hockey League. It was a week and a half after the incident, but it's 24 hours after the suspension. And I'm saying, where's the awareness here? And you know, people can say, oh, it's, it's the league's fault or it's the various players associations' fault. But I also think as a human being, you have to be self-aware and say, this just happened here or this just happened here, this happened the day before. I just can't believe that people aren't making it known that this gesture is interpreted a certain way by people. To them, it's offensive. It's racist. And after having three of them in a month, I'm just, I don't know if I'm surprised, I don't know if I'm disappointed, I don't know if I'm just, I'm angry, but I'm looking at this as a complete institutional failure in terms of, after the first one happened overseas? Because that Jalen Smereck situation was much different, that was a different gesture and nobody is having any grey area about that one.
Jeff Marek [00:06:42] Yeah.
Elliotte Friedman [00:06:42] But the first time this happened to Derek Joslin, it should have been everywhere. Don't do this. Don't do this. Like you may think you're doing this, but this is the way it's gonna be interpreted by a lot of people. And the second time it happened with Boko Imama, again there should've been, like the teams, the players associations, the leagues, word of mouth from people involved. Everybody should have been sending out a note on Friday saying, this is what happened, this was the gesture, don't do this! This is the way it's going to be interpreted! And it happened again 24 hours later, and I I just remember seeing Jordan Subban's tweet, and then you see the video in P.K. Subban's tweet, and I was sitting there with David Amber and Kevin Bieksa and the producer Brian Spear, and we're like, we have to put this to air and we have to put this to air right away to let people know what happened. And then you hear the pain in Harnarayan voice when he's talking about it--
Jeff Marek [00:07:45] Yeah.
Elliotte Friedman [00:07:45] In the third period of Edmonton-Calgary and Louie is supporting Harnarayan. We have to do a better job of learning our lessons. The problem is like, Jeff, we all love hockey. We do. We love hockey. And I think there's a lot of good people in hockey, and I think there's a lot of good things in hockey. But these incidents, they kick the crap out of the sport. They do. You see Akil Thomas's tweet about, is this the game I love? We need to grow and we need to show, like I really do believe there is room in hockey for everybody, no matter who you are and where you come from, and the hockey I support is like that. But, you know, these kinds of incidents, they're kicks in the stomach. And the thing that I can't believe the most is because we've now dealt with three of these in a month is that, where are people stepping up and learning from, from the Joslin incident or the Imama incident that we have to get unfortunately, a Subban incident here where, where is the learning, where are people saying, men and women, this happened and, this is the way it's going to get interpreted, and why are we not learning our lessons? And that I think for me is one thing... like I've seen it before where I see one thing and people see something else. I have always remembered what that's like, like always be aware that something you're doing or saying is gonna be interpreted different ways by different people and... I'm not perfect, I'm far from perfect, I make my mistakes. But the one thing I really tried to learn is to recognise that not everybody sees the same things I do. And, you know, that to me is the biggest disappointment here is that, we're clearly not learning our lessons. This gesture is interpreted and seen in a certain way. And we all have to recognise, you can't use the excuse anymore of, you know, I didn't mean it that way, I was talking tough guy, because it's happened now three times in a month, and we should all know now that this is the way it's gonna be interpreted. Do you have any problem with anything? I said there Jeff?
Jeff Marek [00:10:04] No, but I wanna pick up on a couple of things you said there and colour them, from my perspective as well. I think when you were talking about leagues and educating players and associations and educating players and coaches educating players, I think we also need to throw a couple of other people of influence on hockey players' lives. One are agents.
Elliotte Friedman [00:10:27] That's fair. Very good.
Jeff Marek [00:10:27] I think every agent should be talking to all of their clients as well about what this gesture and other similar gestures mean and how your body language can be interpreted by a lot of different people. Like if we're going to have... and listen, I'm with you. This undoes a lot of progress. What we've seen recently undoes a lot of progress and gains that this sport has made. People are going to have to learn how to be more sensitive about how they speak, about how they behave, about the gestures that they make. And that's gonna be on associations, that's gonna be on leagues, that's gonna be on coaches, that's gonna be on agents. And it's gonna be on broadcasters and it's also gonna be on hockey parents.
Elliotte Friedman [00:11:11] Mhm.
Jeff Marek [00:11:11] And I'm one. I check a lot of these boxes. I'm very sensitive to this issue, as you are as well. Like, I'm with you, I'm part anger and I'm part disappointment. Hanarayan is a really good friend of mine, and I'm watching this and it's breaking my heart. And Louie is such a great teammate and he's, we all know what Louie's doing in that moment too, like he's supporting his guy. And, you know, Hanarayan knowing what he has gone through in his life to get to where he is at. That guy's worked harder than all of us to get there. That guy's heard things that none of us even dream about. That guy's had challenges that none of us have ever faced to get to this place in our career. I get enough, and I think we're all on the same page about this, nothing but respect for Harnarayan Singh and his family. To these incidents, I want to reinforce again, this does undo a lot of the progress. You know, I'm watching you guys discuss this and I'm thinking about David.
Elliotte Friedman [00:12:10] Of course.
Jeff Marek [00:12:11] I'm thinking about Harnarayan. And... I'll tell you what, one of the best commercials that we air is that Bauer ad for the barn. It's fantastic, and I love it every time it comes on. It makes hockey look really cool. And it's an opening and it's an acceptance, and it's an encouragement of different types of athletes and different types of people getting involved in hockey. And then I see these incidents and I say, this is all unravelling. As much as there's a tug and pull, one way of saying, hey, man, there's a big tent here everybody get underneath. There's room for all of it. Then we get incidents like this. I saw um. The, the Jacob Panetta explanation video. And I've heard the arguments that, we're doing the bodybuilder pose, we're doing the tough guy pose. Here's the thing. Right now in 2022, nobody gets the benefit of the doubt on that. No one's getting the benefit of the doubt on that. That definition and that interpretation has very much changed, and I'm watching Jordan Subban react on that video that I think we've all watched a number of times. And to me, that reaction Elliotte, that reaction isn't just about that incident. That was a trigger for him, certainly. And that obviously really upset him. But my thought after watching this over and over again, I thought this initially as well: this is a lifetime of buildup. This isn't just about one thing. This is about, I have to go through this again.
Elliotte Friedman [00:13:48] Yes.
Jeff Marek [00:13:49] I have to--I did this when I was seven and I started playing hockey. I did this when I hit puberty and there was body contact in the game. I did this when I played my first triple-A game. I did this when I played junior hockey, I did this when I turned pro. I went through all of this and here we are in 2022. And here's all these things that I keep hearing about this game and how this game is more welcoming to me, that this game is a cradle for more people like me, and there's a spot for me in it, and I'm going through this shit again. In 2022. I looked at that moment, I said it's not just about that one gesture at that time. To me, that's a lifetime of putting up with this and just saying, that's it. No more, I can't do it. That's that visceral, raw, enough of this emotion that I saw from Jordan Subban. And that does make me like you, really angry, really upset, really disappointed and really sad. And I can only imagine what Boko Imama was going through. I can only imagine what Jordan Subban was--I can only imagine how Harnarayan had to get through what was one of the most anticipated games on the calendar all week long last night, the Edmonton Oilers and the Calgary Flames. How he was able to get through that game last night, let alone say nothing of how David Amber got through intermissions. It's sadness, overwhelming sadness right now, Elliotte.
Elliotte Friedman [00:15:12] I'm with you, Jeff. I feel terrible for the victims, first, second and third. And fourth and fifth and sixth and seventh. I mean, they don't deserve that and their families don't deserve it. The thing I was happy to see out of all of this was the support of Jordan Subban's teammates. Nico Blachman. He came off the bench and he's going to get suspended, but who cares? He stepped up for his teammate, and I'm just glad to see on, on some level that that happened.
Jeff Marek [00:15:47] Nico Blachman, by the way, was a teammate of Boko Imama in Saint John with the Sea Dogs in the QMJHL.
Elliotte Friedman [00:15:54] Oh, I saw that he played in Saint John, but I didn't even put two and two together.
Jeff Marek [00:15:58] Yeah, that was the team that Joe Veleno would have been on that team. Thomas Chabot, Mathieu Joseph had been on that team as well. So listen, to Nico Blachman, wear that suspension with pride. No apology for that suspension. None at all. Good for him.
Elliotte Friedman [00:16:18] You know, Jeff, I just wanted to close by talking about Krystof Hrabik and Jacob Panetta. Krystof Hrabik apologised by statement and vowed to do better. Jacob Panetta did a video on Twitter and vowed to do better. You're going to have the opportunity to do better. You know, you can prove to people that you're honestly remorseful and that you want to do better out of it and you want to make amends to Imama and Subban and their families and their friends and everyone, really. You have the opportunity.
Jeff Marek [00:17:11] Elliotte, there haven't been exactly a lot of wonderful stories around the Philadelphia Flyers this season. Expectations were high, we all know what's happened, a pair of 10 game losing streaks that seems to be dominating the headlines lately. But there is one positive headline, and that's Keith Yandle. On Monday, game 964, tying Doug Jarvis on Tuesday game against the Islanders where the record will be broken. Your thoughts on Keith Yandle?
Elliotte Friedman [00:17:39] I'm really happy for him that he's gonna get to this. There's a lot of things you think about. When I was younger, I was more of a geek as opposed to a nerd.
Jeff Marek [00:17:50] Explain.
Elliotte Friedman [00:17:51] I just remember someone once telling me, Friedman, you're not a nerd, but you're a geek, so I've just always gone with that, okay? And it was kind of funny. Like, this was not bullying. This was kind of funny, actually. So we used to always joke, one of my friends, he was one of those perfect attendance people in school?
Jeff Marek [00:18:09] Cal Ripken, your buddy with Cal Ripken? Okay, good?
Elliotte Friedman [00:18:12] Well, I don't wanna go to Cal Ripken because, that's when he started to really gain appreciation, because by that time when Cal Ripken was breaking the record, I was, I was, you know, 26, 27 years old. So I want to get to that in a second.
Jeff Marek [00:18:24] Okay.
Elliotte Friedman [00:18:24] But when I was a kid like people who went to school every day, they were losers I thought. Like the nerds would go to school every day, not the geeks, the geeks, we were above that.
Jeff Marek [00:18:39] Yeah, we're going to eat subs and play video games. Oh you geeks go to school!
Elliotte Friedman [00:18:43] We're going to Belly Busters!
Jeff Marek [00:18:48] That's awesome.
Elliotte Friedman [00:18:48] And I remember one year there was one guy, it was so funny. He had perfect attendance and he didn't really care about it, but at the end of the year, he's like, I have perfect attendance, I'm gonna go through with it. And the last day, which was a totally meaningless day, we played hooky to go play baseball. And he's like, no, I'm not going I, I, it's the last day of perfect till now, I'm doing it. It was, it was just funny, but I used to make fun of perfect attendance. I thought that was a really stupid, dumb thing, and why would anybody care if they showed up to work every day?
Jeff Marek [00:19:22] Mhm.
Elliotte Friedman [00:19:22] And then I realised as I became a professional and got out into the world, how hard it is to do that. And you know, Ripken is a perfect example. To show up at work 2,632 days in a row? That is to be admired. It's not to be made fun of, it's to be admired that you can do that. And you know, Jeff, like, for example, I know how much you love doing your radio show, and it's hard as much as you love to do your radio show to show up there every day and do it. People get sick, especially now. People get sick. A family member, something comes up. There are so many things out of your control that can happen. For Yandle to get to 964. I think it's incredible. Especially in a sport like this one, because again, you could just be standing there and someone can run over you or a puck can hit you and you're out! And we know that almost happened once in his career. And we know that the beginning of last year, Florida was thinking of benching him until the players went and said, no no no, this is not happening. We're not allowing this to happen. I think this is an incredible accomplishment, although apparently there's a joke going around that people are kidding that are like, either he's not getting tested for COVID or they're just hiding his tests.
Jeff Marek [00:20:46] Can we go back to that, that game last season because that was a big deal, like there was, there was legit concern, like going in the training camp. They're gonna scratch Yandle for game one, they're gonna end the streak, they're gonna do it and all that players--
Elliotte Friedman [00:20:58] They told them it was gonna happen.
Jeff Marek [00:21:00] That it was over!
Elliotte Friedman [00:21:00] Yeah.
Jeff Marek [00:21:01] That it was done! And... the players lost it. If you give a player a cause, he or she will rally and they rallied around Keith Yandle. And do you remember the looks on the players' face when two things happened, one, when Yandle came over for introductions, and two, when he scored that goal.
Elliotte Friedman [00:21:23] Yeah.
Jeff Marek [00:21:24] Just the looks on the Florida Panthers' faces said it all. They had created an us and them dynamic, and he was one of us. And whether you agreed with it or not, whether you thought that Yandle should have been in the lineup or shouldn't have been in the lineup, there was that heel villain dynamic that was created and he became one of them. And the streak continued. You know, at the end of all of this. I don't know if Yandle has any plans to write a book or do like a long, super long form podcast about the streak and how close he came various times and conversations that he had around the streak. But I think it would be a fascinating one one day and I'm with you on showing up every day. Now for everybody, it's a little bit different. And you brought up the example of the radio show and for me, one of the things, like when I went over from CBC to Sportsnet, one of the things I didn't have anymore was a daily radio show to do, and I had always done that like pretty much my entire adult professional career, I always had a daily radio show to do, and it became part of my routine, it became part of like a daily discipline that I had to have and almost became like therapeutic like I had to have that in my life. I needed a daily discipline that I have to do this every single day. So it became helpful, and it's never really been a chore--I mean, at times it is because I feel not great, ah, I got demands.
Elliotte Friedman [00:22:56] Oh my god it's 12:05 I gotta talk to Jeff again, ugh.
Jeff Marek [00:22:59] Yeah you love it everyday I know. No, no, hold my calls, no, I'm not--oh no wait, but I am gonna be distracted, I'm gonna make lunch, I'm gonna send texts, I'm gonna do all those things. But I, see I crave the daily discipline of that, and I'm not sure what Keith Yandle's motivation is here, but at some point, and I'd be curious when that point was like at some point, whether it's Keith Yandle or whether it's your buddy that wouldn't go play baseball with you jerks as you tried to lure him into playing hooky? At some point, Yandle must have said to himself, I want this record. I'm thinking Doug Jarvis. Like, I'm always curious at what number do you think, Doug Jarvis? Because listen, at some point Keith Yandle's sort of thinking about it, and I'm sure at some point Phil Kessel's thought about it, because he may--.
Elliotte Friedman [00:23:41] Yup.
Jeff Marek [00:23:42] He may ultimately set the Iron Man streak here. Like, if you know, whatever happens to Keith Yandle, Kessel may catch him.
Elliotte Friedman [00:23:50] It's good that you brought that up because I was thinking about all the people who are around him. Kessel is 23 games behind, right?
Jeff Marek [00:24:00] Mhm.
Elliotte Friedman [00:24:01] And look at some of the people that got close in recent years. Marleau. Cogliano. You know what I think it is? And now there's suddenly a drop off. It's Yandle at 963. It's Kessel at 940, and third is Brent Burns: 639. That's the thing to me is, I think it becomes competitive. Now, Jeff, you're competing. Can I just play? In a game where a lot of people get benched or they get hurt or something happens? I'm still going. To me, that's the competitive nature that makes Keith Yandle and Phil Kessel NHL players right?
Jeff Marek [00:24:36] Mhm.
Elliotte Friedman [00:24:36] I wanna be in that lineup.
Jeff Marek [00:24:40] I don't want to jinx it, so I want to move on here. But a premature congratulations to Keith Yandle. We'll pause it there because again, I don't want to jinx the guy.
Elliotte Friedman [00:24:50] I'm really happy for him too, so. It's meaningful to him and to his teammates. One of the reasons too Jeff is that, he picked Philly this year and he had a lot of options. It was because the Flyers were committed to, we're gonna get you there.
Jeff Marek [00:25:04] Okay, speaking of the Philadelphia Flyers, Saturday was a tough one.
Jeff Marek [00:25:31] Saturday was really tough against the Buffalo Sabres. The losing is the losing. The questions are the questions. You're Chuck Fletcher. What's going through your mind right now?
Elliotte Friedman [00:25:42] Well, first of all, Bill Meltzer, who does a great job of covering the Flyers and their alumni, he tweeted out on Sunday that he's heard that Chuck Fletcher will hold a state of the team press conference within the week, date and time TBD.
Jeff Marek [00:25:55] Okay.
Elliotte Friedman [00:25:55] So to me, the biggest question is, has Fletcher been told what the direction of the team is? From what I understand, there have been conversations and he's presented, you know what he thinks should be done. They just had their scouting meetings. Has that been decided? And that's the number one question.
Jeff Marek [00:26:17] See, I think the one thing Elliotte that everybody is curious about here is, who stays and who goes? And have they made those decisions? Have they had those conversations? Let's just get the elephant in the room out of the way, because you will be asked about Claude Giroux.
Elliotte Friedman [00:26:36] Mhm.
Jeff Marek [00:26:36] Has that conversation happened yet? How active will they be come trade deadline time? What happens to, you know, you've mentioned Rasmus Ristolainen lately a lot. What happens there? How many players are untouchable? I guess essentially the question about the Philadelphia Flyers is, we know there's probably going to be changes. The question is, how deep does this thing go?
Elliotte Friedman [00:27:01] Well, that's the thing like, are they committing to a full rebuild? They didn't want to do that before this year. They're like, no, we had a good season recently, and you know, we're coming out of a pandemic. We want people in the building. We don't want to rebuild. Like, to me, the Flyers have two jobs to do: to figure out what's going on with their team and also to rebuild their relationship with their fans.
Jeff Marek [00:27:25] There's one more.
Elliotte Friedman [00:27:26] What's that?
Jeff Marek [00:27:26] The coach.
Elliotte Friedman [00:27:27] I think that's all part of the direction they're going in, right? Like if you're gonna rebuild. The Flyers fans were mad about Ed Snyder's birthday not being recognised at a home game on the date of his birthday and Chris Therian took a real run. The former broadcaster and former Flyer took a real run at the organisation this year for not properly supporting the alumni game. And was the Flyers Hall of Fame weekend, and that really resonated with people.
Jeff Marek [00:27:57] Mhm.
Elliotte Friedman [00:27:57] I think they have to fix that too. You know, when it comes to players, the one everybody is focused on the most is Giroux. He's their captain. He's been a Flyer for a decade. He's one of the best players in the history of the franchise. He really cares a lot about being a Flyer, and he still plays really hard. And he has control over his situation. And, Jeff, what's one team in every trade rumour?
Jeff Marek [00:28:22] Colorado.
Elliotte Friedman [00:28:22] Colorado. Like, you know, Colorado, could use a right-hand shot, who couldn't use Claude Giroux, the biggest challenge I have with that is, can you make the math work even close to the deadline? If Claude Giroux wants to go chase a Stanley Cup? That's a team you go to, one, and two, I see a fit there.
Jeff Marek [00:28:46] By the way. Just as an aside, for right shot fits for the Colorado Avalanche? There are two names that jump to mind right away for me. One is Claude Giroux. And the other, and we'll see what happens with this team. But if it goes south, I wonder about Joe Pavelski there.
Elliotte Friedman [00:29:01] Yeah, I think those are both.
Jeff Marek [00:29:02] Those are the two.
Elliotte Friedman [00:29:03] Those are both good, very good calls. But excuse me, sir, we're talking about the Flyers right now?
Jeff Marek [00:29:07] I wanted to make my point, and I'll just put my feet up and let you--
Elliotte Friedman [00:29:10] It's a hard fit, because for one thing, Colorado doesn't have like a player there you're looking that makes money. Like even if the Flyers keep 50%, Colorado, I don't see an obvious player that they want to move to take off their roster, right, to get them to Giroux's number. That's number one. And number two, say maybe you have to use a third team. Then the price to get him becomes even greater.
Jeff Marek [00:29:38] There are teams that can do it.
Elliotte Friedman [00:29:39] Oh yeah, there's no question that--.
Jeff Marek [00:29:41] Teams that can do it!
Elliotte Friedman [00:29:42] Like again, this is my opinion. This screams Colorado. I just don't know if it works.
Jeff Marek [00:29:49] Okay Elliotte, the, the low-hanging fruit time. Although you know what? We really should make the point: even low-hanging fruit is nutritious, sometimes Elliotte. The rumours and the trades and the speculation, and let's begin with the Montreal Canadiens and Ben Chiarot, a player in demand, a player of consequence for the Montreal Canadiens and their new general manager, Kent Hughes. Will this be the first decision slash trade that Kent Hughes makes?
Elliotte Friedman [00:30:16] I think so. I mean, it makes sense to me really? By the way, you know, I have to say, Montreal for a team that really is being stripped bare of, like you wouldn't even recognise the team that went to the Stanley Cup final. They played hard this week. They had every excuse to get killed in some of those games, and they played great.
Jeff Marek [00:30:38] I thought they were going to win again. I thought they were going to win again. Did you not get that feeling on Saturday?
Elliotte Friedman [00:30:43] I don't know. I just looked at all that Colorado firepower, and I was, I said, they're goinna find a way to win this game here.
Jeff Marek [00:30:49] Oh, I know, we all, we all thought that. But was there not a part of you that for at least part of that game, you said yourself, uhhhhh, maybe Montreal can do this?
Elliotte Friedman [00:31:00] Yeah, no. I thought they played really hard. I just thought Colorado was gonna find a way, especially when it got to overtime. I just didn't think that they were gonna be able to do it.
Jeff Marek [00:31:11] Suzuki scores, you're not thinking, oh, here we go!
Elliotte Friedman [00:31:15] No, because it happened all week, right? They were right there and then, you know, the other team--especially when it gets to overtime, it's almost like, you know, with some of their lineup, it's almost not fair because then you shorten the benches and that's where their guys really take hold.
Jeff Marek [00:31:32] Yeah they kill you, they kill you.
Elliotte Friedman [00:31:33] Yes.
Jeff Marek [00:31:33] And they have another, you know, another weapon that kind of gets buried in the headlines in Toews, who's been nothing short of fantastic this year and he was in on the overtime winner Landeskog scored, anyhow, go ahead. You're back on Montreal.
Elliotte Friedman [00:31:44] But I do think Chiarot is probably the first, you know cause he's the UFA, and I already think there's teams jockeying here, right? I do think there's some teams here who're saying we would like to do this and we would like to start this as soon as possible. And, you know, I think that St. Louis has been around there, I think Florida's been around there, I think, I think that's a player that Calgary has interest in. And, you know, just the other team I do wonder about is Toronto, and again, I think that the Maple Leafs will be patient and not overreact to some of the things that have been happening lately. But the reason I mention Toronto specifically is that I believe that when Ben Chiarot was an unrestricted free agent and he signed with Montreal, Toronto was in there, and they just couldn't make it work. But they liked him, he was interested in them, and he is like a local guy, he's a Hamilton guy, right?
Jeff Marek [00:32:40] Let me ask you this point blank, is this Jake Muzzin insurance? Is that what this would be?
Elliotte Friedman [00:32:45] Well, no, I think you want him to play. But the one thing I've heard about Muzzin is that, you know, it's a concussion, so you always have to be careful, but I have heard generally they're optimistic that it's not worst case scenario there. But, you know, it never hurts to have that insurance, I guess, as you call it.
Jeff Marek [00:33:02] The only reason I bring up the term insurance is, you know, Jake Muzzin, the way that he plays can't be replicated by anybody else in that lineup.
Elliotte Friedman [00:33:10] That is true.
Jeff Marek [00:33:11] And that's why I'm saying like, okay, so if he's out, here's the insurance, you still have someone else who can do similar things. That was my only point about having Muzzin insurance. So we'll see! Jakob Chychrun, speaking of defencemen, and this has been an interesting one to follow.
Elliotte Friedman [00:33:24] This is your story that you've been working it so.
Jeff Marek [00:33:27] It sounds like the Coyotes have one offer which meets that... I guess we're sort of loosely calling it the Brent Burns threshold, the, the young player, the prospect, and the first round pick. But this auction continues. Like I think there are a lot of teams around that are interested in Jakob Chychrun? You know, we've talked about Anaheim before. We've talked about St. Louis. The Islanders and the Bruins and the Florida Panthers, who I still think are going to be the team to watch here, the New York Rangers, the Los Angeles Kings I think we have to put in that mix as well. I wonder if this is the point where, you know, you're not getting the best offers, but you're getting offers that satisfy your criteria. You're not getting your A-list prospects, but you're still getting prospects, and you're still getting young hockey players. I don't know that they're any closer to pulling the trigger on a deal here and like, as you always say, you know, it's tough to say that when one phone call can end it. You know, if all of a sudden the Anaheim Ducks say, okay, Mason MacTavish! Well the whole thing's over.
Elliotte Friedman [00:34:35] Yeah, but we don't think that's happening, right?
Jeff Marek [00:34:37] You see, that's the thing though with all of this? Because you attach any team to to Arizona. And let's just say for sake of argument, Anaheim, and there's a fit there because they don't know what's going to happen with Hampus Lindholm, and that could be a great spot for him to slide in if Hampus Lindholm walks to free agency. And then you say to yourself, well, Arizona's gonna want Mason MacTavish right away. I don't know. They have a lot of prospects, but that's gonna be the one I'm sure they ask for. I don't know that Anaheim does that.
Elliotte Friedman [00:35:06] No.
Jeff Marek [00:35:06] Knowing how much they think of Mason MacTavish, knowing how they're looking, you know, the future of their organisation. And we just had Ryan Getzlaf on and I asked him of the 2003 draft and will he be the last man standing? And he said, not a chance. So you know, he's thinking, it might be close to the gate here, but they're looking up the gut for the next 10 years that organisation and they're seeing Trevor Zegras, they're seeing Mason MacTavish.
Elliotte Friedman [00:35:28] Yeah.
Jeff Marek [00:35:28] Do they wanna let that go for Jakob Chychrun? Just like with the Florida Panthers, you know, the, the other significant team of interest? You know, do they want to let go of Anton Lundell? I don't think so, but.
Elliotte Friedman [00:35:44] I don't think so!
Jeff Marek [00:35:44] I don't think so! But I... Put it this way. You do not get the feeling that if Arizona's at the best offers stage right now, this deal would have already been done?
Elliotte Friedman [00:35:55] Yeah, I do. It's poker time.
Jeff Marek [00:35:57] Yes.
Elliotte Friedman [00:35:58] Like, I'll tell you this, when I hear you say ,they've got a legit offer. They're telling people, show your cards. Are you in or are you out? Like, I don't think Arizona wants to wait a long time on this. They may say publicly they do, but I don't believe they do. I don't think they want to risk an injury, I think they'd really like to do this if they can. When I hear you say that, I say, ah! Someone wants people to drop their cards. Are you at the table? Are you fishing your wish? Are you playing poker? Or are you playing fish? And fish is at the other table.
Jeff Marek [00:36:39] So I'm curious yon our thought though, on why they would want to, because on the surface, you would look at this player and you'd say, good price tag, has term, what's the hurry here? I'm with you, I think they want to get something done.
Elliotte Friedman [00:36:53] I think that everyone here is a little bit impatient, they don't want it hanging over their team.
Jeff Marek [00:36:57] Yeah.
Elliotte Friedman [00:36:57] And also Chychrun has been hurt before, right?
Jeff Marek [00:37:00] Yup, that's true.
Elliotte Friedman [00:37:01] Yeah.
Jeff Marek [00:37:02] Other stories we're going to follow this week. The ongoing situation with Evander Kane. What do we look for next Elliotte?
Elliotte Friedman [00:37:08] The league is not tipping its hand on this. You know, last week, I think there were some teams who thought they were gonna find out, they didn't. You know it's one of those things they could announce it at any minute. The league has been pretty quiet about what they know. You know, if he can play, I think it's probably Edmonton and Washington if Washington's in.
Elliotte Friedman [00:37:40] So my buddies in Calgary were all over me after Saturday's broadcast.
Jeff Marek [00:37:44] Why?
Elliotte Friedman [00:37:45] They were like, could you have rooted any harder for Koskinen? They were saying, don't you know how much we hate the Oilers?
Jeff Marek [00:37:52] Hang on, hang on, hang on. I get it. I understand Calgary Flames fans. I understand it. And it just goes against everything you stand for to cheer for anyone wearing that jersey. I get it. I understand it. I got nothing but great feelings about Koskinen after Saturday.
Elliotte Friedman [00:38:08] Yeah.
Jeff Marek [00:38:09] I saw a guy that got beaten up.
Elliotte Friedman [00:38:11] Yes.
Jeff Marek [00:38:12] Every time he had the nerve to wake up all week long, all week long, we saw Leon Draisaitl resist trying to get, you know, lured into slamming him, wasn't gonna happen.
Elliotte Friedman [00:38:22] Yeah.
Jeff Marek [00:38:23] But everyone else took a whack at that piñata. Everybody else was taking a swing at Koskinen. And I don't know that any of us expect this to last. But for one night, at least for one night, when everybody said this thing is going to cave in, and--
Elliotte Friedman [00:38:40] And it was 2-nothing after the first period!
Jeff Marek [00:38:43] Calgary scores those two goals and Elliotte, you know they could have had a couple more.
Elliotte Friedman [00:38:47] Yeah.
Jeff Marek [00:38:47] In that period, were you not saying, oh boy, here we go again.
Elliotte Friedman [00:38:51] You saw us in the first intermission.
Jeff Marek [00:38:54] Listen, by the way, but I want to make one point too: that may have been Kelly's best work this season. I thought Kelly Hrudey on Hockey Night this weekend was phenomenal and incredibly insightful and revealing and sensitive and... Kelly's always good but there's a layer of, another, an extra layer of humanity that he placed on top of this by putting himself in the place of Mikko Koskinen and talking to us from his perspective and what he needs and what Kelly has gone through. Man, that was great. That was great by Kelly.
Elliotte Friedman [00:39:25] It was really good.
Jeff Marek [00:39:25] It was fantastic. Like, I get it Calgary Flames fans, but isn't a part of you cheering for that guy? Like, how do you not cheer for Koskinen on Saturday? Like specifically in that third period? He kept that game alive.
Elliotte Friedman [00:39:40] They said, look, we wanted to win 1-nothing and have Koskinen make 56 saves. That's what they told me.
Jeff Marek [00:39:47] Hmm.
Elliotte Friedman [00:39:48] That's what I thought was pretty funny. But I was happy for Koskinen. He had an awful week, like that whole Edmonton team? They needed that victory in the worst way, the worst way.
Jeff Marek [00:40:00] They did. And good on Koskinen, 44 saves, and good on Evan Bouchard with a pair of goals and good on Leon Draisaitl, who had a fantastic night as well.
Elliotte Friedman [00:41:01] By the time we have the podcast drop on Friday? Morning to all the members of the Canadian Olympic team, you mentioned a few of them the other day. You know, just disappointed for podcast guest Devan Dubnyk that he didn't make the team.
Jeff Marek [00:41:12] Yup.
Elliotte Friedman [00:41:13] You know, you could tell he was hoping to make it. Unfortunately, it just didn't work out for him. But good luck to all those Team Canada players.
Jeff Marek [00:41:19] Stay healthy, everybody. That's the men and the women the, the men's team--
Elliotte Friedman [00:41:23] Everybody competing at the Olympics, stay healthy.
Jeff Marek [00:41:26] Yes.
Elliotte Friedman [00:41:26] And get there safe.
Jeff Marek [00:41:28] So just we're all on the same page as well. The men's team will be named on Tuesday. The women will be leaving for Beijing on the Wednesday. Time for a couple of emails before we sign off. Friedge-rou?
Elliotte Friedman [00:41:40] Yeah, absolutely.
Jeff Marek [00:41:41] Okay. I love this one. I love this question. From Beags in New Hampshire. "Did you see Claude Giroux's effort in the shootout against the Islanders? A slapshot in a shootout from a star player? Is this him mailing it in prior to a trade and what are some of the landing spots?" Well, we've already talked about Giroux and trades, but this isn't the first time we've seen Giroux do this.
Elliotte Friedman [00:42:04] There's no way that guy's mailing anything in, come on.
Jeff Marek [00:42:07] Well, hang on. No, he's not. But I mean, as far as a slap shot in a shootout or a slapshot in a penalty shot, he did this against the Leafs, I wanna to say he's done it against San Jose, like Giroux's done this before. To me, it's one of my favourite moves in hockey. Just coming in point blank, just a top of the hashmarks and letting one go. Brian Rolston did this Elliotte remember? How many times did Brian Rolston do this? Every shootout like Brian Rolston, oh here comes the slapshot.
Elliotte Friedman [00:42:32] Yeah.
Jeff Marek [00:42:32] Thomas Vanek would do this on the regular too. Sometimes you do that around the world move, just circle around the puck and then blast it? We've seen Chara do it, which must be the most frightening thing in the world for a goaltender.
Elliotte Friedman [00:42:45] Oh yeah. Terrifying.
Jeff Marek [00:42:45] But you know who used to do it? Jiri Hudler used to do it, too. You know, he used to do it, and I used to love it, cause the guy's such a rhinoceros on skates. Remember Marian Hossa doing this move?
Elliotte Friedman [00:42:56] I don't remember him doing that.
Jeff Marek [00:42:57] Just coming in and blasting it. I just don't know what goes through a goalies mind. Like you know you're powerless. You're just like, I'm just gonna try something and maybe kind of get in the way of I, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often. I love the slapshot from the hashmarks move on the shootout. Do you like that move Elliotte?
Elliotte Friedman [00:43:15] I do. I think it's entertaining. I think it's funny. Look, whatever works, right?
Jeff Marek [00:43:21] I love it.
Elliotte Friedman [00:43:21] Koskinen the other night. They don't ask you how they ask you how many.
Jeff Marek [00:43:25] Yes. Okay. From Phillip in California, "I was a bit peeved to listen to the latest episode and hearing--".
Elliotte Friedman [00:43:30] Uh oh!
Jeff Marek [00:43:30] I know.
Elliotte Friedman [00:43:30] Phillip, what'd we do?
Jeff Marek [00:43:33] Hang on. Well, he heard no mention of Timo Meier. "I totally respect it, Victor Hedman deserved air time for his game against L.A., but Timo also had a pretty good game against Los Angeles." Yeah, I think so, Phillip. "Five goals. How about some Timo time?" Do you remember the first time you saw Timo Meier play?
Elliotte Friedman [00:43:52] Yes, it was in a CHL game, and I just remember it was one of those nights where he had the puck and nobody was taking it from him.
Jeff Marek [00:44:01] Great power forward.
Elliotte Friedman [00:44:02] Don't remember... you know, there are some players because at that age, some are more filled out than others? Some players you want to check the birth certificate, is that player really 20? Meier was one of those guys.
Jeff Marek [00:44:16] Yes. Halifax and then Rouyn-Noranda. And the first time I saw him was, I mean, I'd seen him on television playing for Halifax, but live at the, the 2016 Memorial Cup with the Huskies playing in Red Deer. Like that was the year where London had like Marner, Dvorak and Tkachuk. That was the top line, Oleo Levy was on the blue line and Max Jones like it was stacked team and they ended up beating Timo Meier's team, but I just remember like, to your point, seeing this big, hulking power forward that could move his feet and the one thing more than anything else that just stunned you? Was the release.
Elliotte Friedman [00:44:52] Yeah.
Jeff Marek [00:44:53] Like just how this guy's shot was heaaavy. I think like a lot of us, we've been waiting for Timo Meier to emerge as the next big power forward in the NHL? I wonder if we're there.
Elliotte Friedman [00:45:06] I heard that San Jose told Meier, they're expecting a lot from him this year. That if he really enjoyed being a member of the Sharks? That this had to be a better year for him. And it's pretty clear he likes being a member of the Sharks.
Jeff Marek [00:45:23] He started out good too like, there was a stretch there of about two to three weeks that you could have made an argument, albeit in a, how shall we say, in a minor key? Not a major key, in a minor key. For the Hart Trophy. That's how good he was for the San Jose Sharks when they had their first little run. Okay we'll finish up with this one Elliotte, from Bill. "As a Canucks fan, there's been a lot of discussion recently about potentially moving J.T. Miller. I think it's a move worth discussing, given his age and the fact that he'll be a UFA next summer. But I'm wondering how potential trade could impact how other teams, players and fans will perceive the organisation and the potential negative locker room dynamics that it might create, i.e. players won't be happy, management's trading away one of their best players and making them a worse team. What do you hear, what do you know, J.T. Miller?"
Elliotte Friedman [00:46:14] I think Miller is sick of the trade rumours. That's number one. I think he's reached a point where he's like, like there's one a day, like enough with this garbage. I think he's kind of tired of listening to it. I have no doubt that that's the case. Look, the guy plays hard. I do think you get to a point where... a players getting close to the end of his deal. You have to have an honest conversation where, where are we going here? And sometimes a year and a half out, a player may not be willing to say, I'm leaving, I'm not coming back, or I'm definitely staying. Sometimes they will. You have to kind of figure out where this player is, but they don't always have an answer. The one thing I think about Miller is that, they've been called on him a lot. Not necessarily are they interested in trading him, but they get calls about him. I know Benning got a ton of them. And whenever you know the Vancouver media would report, oh, I'm hearing a J.T. Miller trade rumour, you know, and it would get out there other teams would start calling like, hey, are you guys trading Miller? And Benning's his head would spin around like Linda Blair in The Exorcist and he'd be like, again? When Benning's out and Rutherford takes over, you know, he's starting to do all his due diligence and people are calling him like, what are you doing with Miller? I think they know exactly what the market is for him. Look, I think they'll try to stay in the race as long as they can. I'm sure there will be the value of trading him this year versus, you know, staying in the race and seeing if that's worth it to us. But I think they're gonna have, if they wanna do it, I don't think they're gonna have a shortage of teams saying, yeah, we're gonna do it, but I just don't know like, the one thing I'm starting to hear is that teams are starting to say that the Canucks are gonna be willing to do some things. I think Rutherford has let that be known that, you know, there are some things that they're going to be considering. I just don't know if he said, it's this or that or this in particular.
Jeff Marek [00:48:14] Very good. Elliotte I wanna close by talking about and offering condolences to the Gillies family. Clark Gillies passed away on Friday, a giant of the game, a giant on the ice, a giant off the ice. My heart breaks for our friend and colleague Justin Bourne, his wife Brianna, the Bourne and Gillies family, very close. I think we all have memories of either watching Clark Gillies play, or meeting Clark Gillies, or seeing him at the rink, whether it's at, you know, charitable functions as well, whether it's, you know, crushing it in a beer on his head as he famously did, a wildly generous man, a really good hockey player, a hockey Hall of Famer. Brianna wrote the most wonderful, like, beautiful thing about a beautiful man on her Instagram, wrote just a beautiful few passages about Clark and, you know, condolences and and all respect to Brianna Bourne. Shannon Hogan, who's the Islanders host on the broadcast on Friday just spoke so beautifully about Clark Gillies and, I mean, she's a thorough pro, but you know, underlying all of it, you can tell in her voice just how much Clark Gillies meant to her, how much Clark Gillies meant to the Islanders, meant to all those fans, meant to that organisation. And he was someone that everyone loved being around because Jethro always had a smile and a kind word and a laugh, and he just made you feel like a better person when you were around Clark Gillies. Elliotte do you have a thought on Jethro?
Elliotte Friedman [00:49:56] I met Ed Hospodar once.
Jeff Marek [00:49:59] Ooh.
Elliotte Friedman [00:50:01] And Ed Hospodar was a former NHL player who was a very very tough guy. And we talked about one of the more famous incidents of his career, which was the fight between Philadelphia and Montreal before a Stanley Cup semifinal playoff game, when the Flyers were tired of the Canadiens shooting the puck down the empty net so they dressed guys like Hospidar who weren't gonna be playing, who would stop this, would stop this craziness from occurring.
Jeff Marek [00:50:32] Chicanery.
Elliotte Friedman [00:50:33] This chicanery by starting a fight, and it was a pretty famous incident. And Hospidar was talking about that, and then he was talking with people about another one that he really remembered, and that was when he told the story about provoking Clark Gillies. And he said that Clark Gillies was telling him, stop, stop, he's cross-checking him and he's slashing him in the back of the legs. And Gillies is like, stop, stop, don't do this, I warn you. And he went too far and Gillies put him in hospital. And he said that it was, it was my fault because he warned me not to tempt them anymore.
Jeff Marek [00:51:16] He broke his jaw. That was, that was that upper--the minute you said Ed Hospidar, all I could think about was the uppercut from Clark Gillies.
Elliotte Friedman [00:51:23] Again, you mentioned how good Kelly was talking about Koskinen? I thought Kelly was just as brilliant early in the show, talking about Gillies and showing the picture of the two of them with their bowling team trophy from the Islanders.
Jeff Marek [00:51:37] Yeah. One of the greatest lines of that generation: the Trio Grande. Brian Trottier, Mike Bossy, and the great late Clark Gillies. Condolences to the Gillies family.
Jeff Marek [00:52:01] I remember interviewing Dave Schultz once years and years ago, and we talked about a number of things and the name Clark Gillies came up, and he talked about which would have been a year after Clark's Regina Pats won the Memorial Cup. The Islanders and the Flyers were facing off in the playoffs and Gillies is in the lineup. And I guess Schulz must have thought that, okay, who is this kid? I'm the gunslinger here, I'm going to show him who's who? I'm the king. And Schultz said, I went at him and I hit him real hard twice.
Jeff Marek [00:52:34] And it didn't faze him as a matter of fact, he laughed. He laughed man no one's ever laughed at me during a fight and I didn't know what to do and then he goes, and then he tagged me with a couple fast and they were hard, hard punches and everybody on the ice knew, oh man, Dave's in trouble. Dave's in trouble quick. And it was Moose DuPont, jumped in right away, third man in, classic Flyers of the '70s, when your guy's losing, you jump in to end the fight. DuPont jumps in and the fight's over. And all you could hear was Clark Gillies laughing, which must have been haunting. And this guy was just a kid.
Jeff Marek [00:53:42] And there are many people that look at that one specific moment. Clark Gillies taking on Dave 'the Hammer' Schultz, one of the toughest of the tough, and they look back on that and they say, that's the moment the New York Islanders got their identity. They won the Cup years later, but that was the moment they got their identity and they weren't getting pushed around anymore.